openEtG

[Tiko]

Hmm.

I've restrained myself to comment on any aspect of oEtG so far, mostly because of the clear division of opinions among the community. I'm in no way professional in legal matters (wish I were.. damn!). but apart from that and my personal opinion on the matter, let me ask you this:

If you had the energy, and the resources to create a project such as this - which is no matter how you look at it, a spinoff of a game already existing -, why didn't you try to make a purely standalone and genuine game in the first place? If your intent was to keep EtG, or its forums alive with this action you took, you could've put up a simple PONG game on Kong even, and expect the same result or outcome. Now, this may be a harsh example, but think about it. This game is dead currently, or maybe just slowly dying, but putting up an alternative for it may encourage some players to spend more time off the original to explore, or even to get fond of some of the extended possibilities in it.

That said, my thoughts may be powerless here, considering I have minimal experience  or interest with oEtG, and  for every passing day, I feel less and less urge to load up the original even.

[serprex]

@Tiko Hard to answer your questions, they come off as unclear & semi-observant. Likely a result of the questions being a side effect of the meditation. The only issue I think that exists here is that you're assuming there's been much intent behind the evolution of oetg. I think this is something most people don't realize, which results in accusations of me being some schemeful entity. The fact is that in the past I have argued that I didn't want to post oetg to other games sites (though I did post it to 64digits.com as I use to post games there in the past & figured it was a way to say hello)

At some point anti asked if I'd be opposed to him posting oetg to kong. I personally didn't have any argument against doing so. A few days ago I decided to look into what would be involved in posting to kong. Turns out it's pretty straightforward. So having implemented kong integration by process of investigation, I published

I put oetg at the mercy of Zanz not for any intellectual property reasons, so much as I respect his opinion of the project. Anyone else who wants to start a theological discussion of someone else's opinion is outside of my concern. Their words are wasted on me

[inthisroom]

@Tiko Hard to answer your questions, they come off as unclear & semi-observant. Likely a result of the questions being a side effect of the meditation. The only issue I think that exists here is that you're assuming there's been much intent behind the evolution of oetg. I think this is something most people don't realize, which results in accusations of me being some schemeful entity. The fact is that in the past I have argued that I didn't want to post oetg to other games sites (though I did post it to 64digits.com as I use to post games there in the past & figured it was a way to say hello)

At some point anti asked if I'd be opposed to him posting oetg to kong. I personally didn't have any argument against doing so. A few days ago I decided to look into what would be involved in posting to kong. Turns out it's pretty straightforward. So having implemented kong integration by process of investigation, I published

I put oetg at the mercy of Zanz not for any intellectual property reasons, so much as I respect his opinion of the project. Anyone else who wants to start a theological discussion of someone else's opinion is outside of my concern. Their words are wasted on me

Funny how everyone questionning your actions is unclear and semi-observant.

Words of logic or philosophy are indeed wasted on you, as you seem to have neither morals nor respect for anyone outside yourself.

Also just reminding you again that all the Kongregate Elements moderators are working against the fact that you could post this unauthorized spin-off to Kongregate.

What surprises me is that you haven't been banned from this place yet.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

I'm not sure how this could be allowed. It has many identical cards and an almost identical game-play mechanic. As it was before release, it was a fan fic and not widely available, and crucially was non-profit.

I can't find it on kong so I imagine it's been taken down pending response from Zanz. If this is the case I have no problem waiting for a response and acting accordingly (even if the e-mail is a bit heavy handed.)

Ultimately there is little point in the community theorising or arguing about it, so long as the final decision is Zanz's.

[inthisroom]

I'm not sure how this could be allowed. It has many identical cards and an almost identical game-play mechanic. As it was before release, it was a fan fic and not widely available, and crucially was non-profit.

I can't find it on kong so I imagine it's been taken down pending response from Zanz. If this is the case I have no problem waiting for a response and acting accordingly (even if the e-mail is a bit heavy handed.)

Ultimately there is little point in the community theorising or arguing about it, so long as the final decision is Zanz's.

It wasn't allowed, just as the rest of this farce, it was done without any authorisation.

Just don't question the ones doing it, this would be biased and unfair, unclear, and probably semi-observant.

[Tiko]

No, there was nothing personal in what I said. Call it a train-of-thought.

I understand that you make this only for self-improvement. And for my personal opinion about oEtG: I appreciate the effort in it. I also appreciate your legal attitude about the matter. I'm just simply not interested. I'm backward like that. Even if I don't play much anymore with Elements, I still do sometimes. And it'd be a shame to see it wither off even a bit earlier because of something like this.

As for signing that letter in my name with many others', that I don't appreciate - but then again, I'm only a ghost here. Just do whatever you want.

[OldTrees]

While "act first ask for forgiveness later" is a disrespectful policy when it comes to using someone else's art, it is a step up from "presuming permission unless proven wrong".

For of all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: "It might have been!"
-John Greenleaf Whittier

If only if only you created a new game that learned from its predecessors(like EtG did), then ... well, it might have been different.

But my words have no weight because they have not changed since I uttered them last.

[Vangelios]

yeah... ask is not offense, let's wait the reply of Zanzarino, is the best thing to do now

[Keeps]

Hi again.  So based on the last 10 or 15 posts here I wanted to chime in.

1.) Gameplay can not be copyrighted or patented. 
2.) Names can be trademarked, (Blackhole would never hold up in court.  Shard of Patience could be but isn't trade marked.  Only trademarks are Elements the Game, and the Zanzorino Design)
3.) Code can be copyrighted. (oEtG was coded from scratch in a completely different language)
4.) Art and graphics can be copyrighted (The only art that is copied is the free domain art done be individuals such as VRT)
5.) A specific process can be patented.  (There is no specific process to EtG)

So again, I will stress that there are no legal issues here with oEtG.

Now rather the moderators want to support this version or not is up to the forum runners.  This thread could be shutdown at any time.  That's a different story.

Also remember what this was about.  It was about doing what the community wanted, the community a year or more ago was demanding EtG with more cards, a meta that wasn't stale.  This was a communities' decision and heart at the time.  serpex may do the most here, but remember tons of people test, played, coded, designed, and made art for this.  Although a community does change over time, and gains and loses active members, in one respect signing it 'The' community is not too far off.  Writing such a letter is not even technically necessary the fact that serpex and such continue to operate as if Zanz even has a say is very generous of them.  Remember that, generous of them, they have no reason to 'need' to communicate to Zanz or 'ask' him anything.  They do so out of respect.  I think anyone who feels counter to this, needs to really check themselves to the reality of the situation.

[OldTrees]

Whether you agree or disagree with my post, it is valuable to understand the other side.

Hi again.  So based on the last 10 or 15 posts here I wanted to chime in.

1.) Gameplay can not be copyrighted or patented. 

I made a new game: It is like Pokemon except it is made with independantly created cards/art, is called NeoPokemon, and has a bunch of new monsters in addition to all the monsters from Pokemon.

Those that take issue with copy-pasting EtG content under new management are not objecting on the basis of what is/is not legal. oEtG is taking someone else's work (the content of EtG as it is distinct from the code to implement said content) and adding more content. The direct lifting of the work (again, speaking content not code) is one of the most common points of contention. Merely copying the gameplay without copying the content would have received a rare comment or two about "unoriginal" but would not have had as much pushback as oEtG receives.

The sad thing is, back when oEtG started there were more than enough active members in the CIA that lifting the content of EtG was unnecessary.

So yes, it is understood that the gestures of respect offered are made out of respect. The disagreement is about how much respect was owed vs how much was offered (and whether there is a deficit or a surplus).

[Vangelios]

I think Oetg should become a tool, like "card Idea", however to banlance cards based in comunity feedbacks and cards.

well we have some two relevant facts here...

1 ETG is pratically abandoned, in pvp 1 or 2 I can't see players
2 Oetg don't is illegal, unless Zanzarino say the opposite. especially since it emerged in the community and not in a different forum.
3 Oetg is not any threat to ETG, this just a comunity fan game.

[js-number]

So... just to confirm, oetg is dead and Cygnia is somewhat of a new attempt to have an actively developed ETG, right?