Mutation

[harry959]

I just noticed that if you TU a Improved Mutant the creature will stay the same, but it will get a different attack, life, and power each time. Paradox with 4 20/20 purple dragons with destroy, mutate, and burrow is never fun 

[miniwally]

Yes...just a question where are you intending on going with this thread? It shouldn't work like that? It's OP? It's so annoying?, not sure what you're going for here.

[harry959]

I'm just wondering if this was intended on purpose or not. It might make a little more sense if it just copyed it and didn't mutate it every time you TU'ed it. It is also somewhat OP since Improved Mutation will increase the health and attack of the creature.

[willng3]

I'm just wondering if this was intended on purpose or not. It might make a little more sense if it just copyed it and didn't mutate it every time you TU'ed it. It is also somewhat OP since Improved Mutation will increase the health and attack of the creature.

I'll give you an example of something I saw the other day while grinding FGs.  Fallen Druid was used to improve a creature.  This creature mutated into a 7/0 Ball of Lightning.  The Ball of Lightning inflicted damage before being killed due to it having 0 HP.  Now, Improved Mutation can certainly offer some extremely powerful possibilities, but at the same time there is a chance that those changes will not be to your liking.  I would also like to point out that Improved Mutation is not guaranteed to increase your health and attack though this is seen often.  You will find oftentimes that if you use high-attack creatures such as dragons against an AI who uses Improved Mutation that the opponent will target your dragon due to it being considered a considerable threat.  There is a good possibility that your dragon will actually lose stats.  Basically, mutation is left up to chance which means that it could be the asset that wins you the game, or causes you to lose it and as such cannot be considered OP.

[kobisjeruk]

thats what make 'mutant' so unique i.e. it is intended to be that way
instead of blaming it on mutant being so 'chaotic', try to play smarter by

i) dont mutate mindlessly against opponents with TU/PU
ii) dont attempt to TU a 'mutant' with powerful active ability (e.g. destroy, steal, growth)

[jumpoffduck]

I'm just wondering if this was intended on purpose or not. It might make a little more sense if it just copyed it and didn't mutate it every time you TU'ed it. It is also somewhat OP since Improved Mutation will increase the health and attack of the creature.

I'll give you an example of something I saw the other day while grinding FGs.  Fallen Druid was used to improve a creature.  This creature mutated into a 7/0 Ball of Lightning.  The Ball of Lightning inflicted damage before being killed due to it having 0 HP.  Now, Improved Mutation can certainly offer some extremely powerful possibilities, but at the same time there is a chance that those changes will not be to your liking.  I would also like to point out that Improved Mutation is not guaranteed to increase your health and attack though this is seen often.  You will find oftentimes that if you use high-attack creatures such as dragons against an AI who uses Improved Mutation that the opponent will target your dragon due to it being considered a considerable threat.  There is a good possibility that your dragon will actually lose stats.  Basically, mutation is left up to chance which means that it could be the asset that wins you the game, or causes you to lose it and as such cannot be considered OP.

Either I'm missing something, or that has nothing to do with the OP's question about TU.

ii) dont attempt to TU a 'mutant' with powerful active ability (e.g. destroy, steal, growth)

Why not? TUing a big mutant dragon gives you another (bigger) mutant dragon with a random ability regardless of whether the original one had Destroy or Heal

@OP: mutation+TU's been this way, and it hasn't been changed, so I assume it's intentional

[harry959]

Yeah, he TU'ed a purple dragon 4 times. The last one had 24/24 with 2 destroy. *shiver*

[kobisjeruk]

ii) dont attempt to TU a 'mutant' with powerful active ability (e.g. destroy, steal, growth)

Why not? TUing a big mutant dragon gives you another (bigger) mutant dragon with a random ability regardless of whether the original one had Destroy or Heal

@OP: mutation+TU's been this way, and it hasn't been changed, so I assume it's intentional

what i meant was, dont TU a mutant with a powerful ability expecting to get the same thing
If you're lucky, you might get the same ability (it is still not considered 100% copy) but there are dozens of abilities and the RNG might not be on your side

[willng3]

I'm just wondering if this was intended on purpose or not. It might make a little more sense if it just copyed it and didn't mutate it every time you TU'ed it. It is also somewhat OP since Improved Mutation will increase the health and attack of the creature.

I'll give you an example of something I saw the other day while grinding FGs.  Fallen Druid was used to improve a creature.  This creature mutated into a 7/0 Ball of Lightning.  The Ball of Lightning inflicted damage before being killed due to it having 0 HP.  Now, Improved Mutation can certainly offer some extremely powerful possibilities, but at the same time there is a chance that those changes will not be to your liking.  I would also like to point out that Improved Mutation is not guaranteed to increase your health and attack though this is seen often.  You will find oftentimes that if you use high-attack creatures such as dragons against an AI who uses Improved Mutation that the opponent will target your dragon due to it being considered a considerable threat.  There is a good possibility that your dragon will actually lose stats.  Basically, mutation is left up to chance which means that it could be the asset that wins you the game, or causes you to lose it and as such cannot be considered OP.

Either I'm missing something, or that has nothing to do with the OP's question about TU.

In a sense you're right.  I didn't address TU since it's basically just replicating the effects of the mutation effect, which thereby means you're taking yet another, given slightly less risky, gamble with what you can expect to receive.  This is a problem with a creature wielding an effect such as destroy, steal, or growth because odds are you're not going to get a creature with the same effect (a theme commonly seen with TU'ing a normal creature I might add).  The last statement of harry's response I quoted seemed to allude to the fact that he believed Improved Mutation itself was overpowered, not just TU'ing that improved creature which is why I addressed that directly.  You can draw enough conclusions to understand my point regardless of whether the exact question was addressed or not.

[harry959]

I'm just wondering if this was intended on purpose or not. It might make a little more sense if it just copyed it and didn't mutate it every time you TU'ed it. It is also somewhat OP since Improved Mutation will increase the health and attack of the creature.

I'll give you an example of something I saw the other day while grinding FGs.  Fallen Druid was used to improve a creature.  This creature mutated into a 7/0 Ball of Lightning.  The Ball of Lightning inflicted damage before being killed due to it having 0 HP.  Now, Improved Mutation can certainly offer some extremely powerful possibilities, but at the same time there is a chance that those changes will not be to your liking.  I would also like to point out that Improved Mutation is not guaranteed to increase your health and attack though this is seen often.  You will find oftentimes that if you use high-attack creatures such as dragons against an AI who uses Improved Mutation that the opponent will target your dragon due to it being considered a considerable threat.  There is a good possibility that your dragon will actually lose stats.  Basically, mutation is left up to chance which means that it could be the asset that wins you the game, or causes you to lose it and as such cannot be considered OP.

Either I'm missing something, or that has nothing to do with the OP's question about TU.

In a sense you're right.  I didn't address TU since it's basically just replicating the effects of the mutation effect, which thereby means you're taking yet another, given slightly less risky, gamble with what you can expect to receive.  This is a problem with a creature wielding an effect such as destroy, steal, or growth because odds are you're not going to get a creature with the same effect (a theme commonly seen with TU'ing a normal creature I might add).  The last statement of harry's response I quoted seemed to allude to the fact that he believed Improved Mutation itself was overpowered, not just TU'ing that improved creature which is why I addressed that directly.  You can draw enough conclusions to understand my point regardless of whether the exact question was addressed or not.

I don't believe Improved Mutation was overpowered, it's just that it went from 10/5 to 14/14 to 18/18 to 20/20 to 24/24. THAT seems a bit OP.

[smuglapse]

It's worse than you thought:  The mutation status will copy the previous creature's full attack and HP and add 0-4 to each, and set the current attack and HP to full.  So, even if the original dragon was damaged and Antimattered, the copies would still have full attack and HP.

That said-it is not something you can strongly control through deck design, so I don't consider it OP.  It is similar to Dusk Shield blocking all the hard-hitters attacks.

If zanz wanted luck to have less effect on the game it would be changed, but its power level should not be the reason to change it, because it is so inconsistent.