It's ALL about the rush deck...

[TheMonolith]

I don't post here very often because I'm mostly about playing, not discussing. But something has struck me, and I need to post about it.

I've been a member of this game - and playing regularly - since April '09.  I've used all different kinds of decks.  Needless to say, I like the game, I care about it, and I don't want to see it ruined.  Some of you will think I'm just sour and posting rage, but I don't waste that kind of time.  Here's the thing:

Elements is BROKEN.

I just lost a match in 3 turns.  Not once, but twice in the last three T50 games I played - to two different rush-style decks. Admittedly, my deck didn't perform as it should during these games.  But it's a stall deck which, until recently, had been performing at about 80% vs. T50 with about 1/2 my wins with EM.  It's a good, fully upgraded deck I worked hard at designing to be competitive against any opponent.

My point is, you should not be able to win a match in 3 turns at all.  No matter how good your draw or how poor your opponent's.  No matter the deck styles or the difference in upgraded cards.   3 Turns!  What is the counter to this, except to design a deck that can somehow win in 2 turns?  Do you think that's possible -  A deck that can win in 2 turns? 

I see this game becoming MTG:Online.  I never played MTG - Mainly because I heard people talking about how outrageous combos made the game non-competitive for anyone who didn't have a deck that could win in 3 turns.  Frankly, I don't want to play any card game that can be won in 3 turns.

I know you, the reader of this post, don't care if I live or die, (and you or someone else will probably reply as such).  But consider, if you care about this game at all, that for every person who posts a complaint here, there are probably 100 who, instead, will just quit and never come back.

Thanks for your time.

[Higurashi]

CC is a good counter to most decks that are that fast. Of course, even stalls have to be fast in their setup to be effective, but it's certainly true it's hard stopping a rush that gets an epic draw. I think you have a point. There may need to be some form of balancing tool for early turns.

I'll note nova and cremation decks are capable of launching 1-2 turns before their opponent. This is what lets them pull these wins. Perhaps those cards need to go.

[Dm]

CC, Dim Shield, etc.

Now seriously, what WAS the deck? As long as I know, the only way to win in 3 turns is by some seriously quanta lucky out of quantum towers. Maybe 5 turns, that's normal, but 3?

[Kamietsu]

CC is a good counter to most decks that are that fast. Of course, even stalls have to be fast in their setup to be effective, but it's certainly true it's hard stopping a rush that gets an epic draw. I think you have a point. There may need to be some form of balancing tool for early turns.

Silence That hurts rush decks some, as well as an early shield. But you can't really design against epic draws. Because that would hurt much more than it would help balance the game.

[Higurashi]

CC, Dim Shield, etc.

Now seriously, what WAS the deck? As long as I know, the only way to win in 3 turns is by some seriously quanta lucky out of quantum towers. Maybe 5 turns, that's normal, but 3?

Most of the top upped decks on this list can win in 3 turns. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8813.0.html

[Terroking]

CC is a good counter to most decks that are that fast. Of course, even stalls have to be fast in their setup to be effective, but it's certainly true it's hard stopping a rush that gets an epic draw. I think you have a point. There may need to be some form of balancing tool for early turns.

*Silence* *Sundial* *Phase Shield* *Otyugh*

Basically, there are a lot of counters to an early rush, the above 4 being some of the best so long as you can get them out (Pretty much all decks that aim for 3ttw have little to no control, and if they can draw what they have+enough to win in 3 turns, the RNG hates you and you deserve to lose) and they generally let you get some time to draw the rest of the cards you need to get rid of all your opponent's damage.

If there is to be any nerf to rush decks, or at least, one to prevent 3 turn wins, it would probably be to make Immo/Cremation generate only 6/8 quanta instead of the current 7/9, but that would probably get even more rage than the Fractal nerf.

[thatnewguy]

I'm interested to see this deck you used. Usually to stop these 3 turns (which need INCREDIBLE luck to happen) you can pack small CC, rewind/freeze/firebolt or even a shield like permafrost. 3 turns is insane to win in that, although most people only use these decks for farming AI3, so there is hardly a problem seeing them in t50/pvp2 unless they are testing (looks at will). Perhaps cremate needs to go down a bit in order to stop these 3 ttws tho.

NOTE: ninja'd

[Dm]

CC, Dim Shield, etc.

Now seriously, what WAS the deck? As long as I know, the only way to win in 3 turns is by some seriously quanta lucky out of quantum towers. Maybe 5 turns, that's normal, but 3?

Most of the top upped decks on this list can win in 3 turns. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8813.0.html

They have Potential to win in 3 turns. Winning in 3 turns frequently is wrong, winning in 3 turns occasionally is acceptable. He just had bad luck or something ~ It's most likely very rare for 3 turns win to show up actually.


Like Terro said, if they win in 3 turns, RNG hates you. Go take a shower or something. When you come back it'll all be nice and even.

[willng3]

Those same decks require a great deal of luck to be able to pull off a 3 turn win.  If there is practically any resistance at all, that deck's speed will plummet as a consequence.  Even the fastest deck in existence is only able to pull a 3 turn win once out of approximately 200 games.  You had an extreme case of bad luck, which is disappointing, but does not mean that Elements is in any way broken.  And yes, that's the issue with T50.  Because there are 50 different decks posted, there will generally be at least one deck which counters yours completely.  A stall will be prone to these types of decks regardless of the draws pulled especially if it's CC is limited.  Why?  One deck takes a long time to win (most of these using passive resistance before enacting a certain combination) while the other wins very quickly (brute force and damage spam).  This is how a counter works.

[hrmmm]

well... 3 turn wins are really rare, even for the best rushes.

i tested once 200 games with V2 (the former fastest deck, a cremation/destroyer rush) without a single 3 turn win.
i think in the first turns to win study, there was not a single 3 turn win recorded.

loosing twice in 3 turns is pretty insane.

there is a post somwhere about a possible 1 turn win (something uber wierd mutation stuff i think) ... but its more likely to get hit by a meteorit then boost that off.

[EvaRia]

I think what happens is that they were 4 turn wins, but the losses turn counter runs by YOUR turns only.

So if they get a 4tw and they won the toss, it will show up as a 3tw for you.

[frlaa]

i use a 30 cards deck with 3x wings... rush decks are epic fail