I think upgrade prices are too...

[Scaredgirl]

I never stated that Elements was a huge success and that nothing should be changed.  If you go back and read what I DID say, I was making the point that 'boring' grinding to you can be 'fun' for another player.  Of course Elements has room for improvement, as does just about every other game out there.  But that doesn't change the fact that people like cisco have played the game for as long as they have.  And this isn't about trying a new deck without 10 hours of grinding because the trainer (and better yet, Chriskang's trainer) will let you do that.

You need to improve your reading comprehension. Also I hope you never design your own game because you don't seem to understand how the business works.

I never said nobody is having fun grinding in Elements. There are people who actually enjoy grinding 10 hours a day, but so what? Should we design Elements for this very small minority? OR.. should we design Elements so that the majority likes it? And maybe.. just maybe.. Elements will become hugely popular, which in turn means more updates and more fun.

Anyone can see you are on a vendetta against me since you like to always bypass the topic and talk about me and how I hurt you feelings in the past. Unfortunately for you, no matter how you try to spin this grinding talk, you are wrong and maybe that is eating you up inside? There is just no logical argument with what you could defend grinding. Period. Grinding belongs to low-budget MMO's, not online CCG's.

The fact that trainers are almost as popular as the main game should tell you something. Clearly trainers offer something that the main game doesn't. Trainers offer freedom of deck design, which is what CCG's should be all about.

[Scaredgirl]

As for off-topic.. this discussion about grinding is not actually off-topic. It's what this thread is about because upgrade prices effect on the amount of grinding in the game.

The fact that this is a disscusion about (or suppose to be) upgraded prices, and upgrade prices affect grinding, does not by default make this a topic about grinding. Grinding is a valid thing to bring up sure, but not to this extent on this topic.

So we can talk about grinding but not too much? Do you realize how dumb that sounds? You are not the person who says what we can and can't talk about.

Talking about the amount of grinding is not off-topic.

More grinding = upgrade prices go up
Less grinding = upgrade prices go down

Elements has to have grinding because there is not enough content to keep players busy. Only question is that is there too much or too little grind. Personally I think there is way too much.

Like I said, people can still talk about upgrade prices (and not mention grinding at all). But maybe everyone has already said their piece and that part of the conversation has died?

That's how forums work.

[Scaredgirl]

Just trying to keep things on point.

Good thing you were alert. Otherwise this could have been a disaster.

[Scaredgirl]

Not really, SG. It's just this topic that I ever really mentioned anything about it. I really prefer to keep topics open as much as possible, but this particular thread has gotten way off from what it was intended to discuss. If you think one instance is enough to say that "we all dodged a bullet", then I guess start the party. I appreciate the vote, but don't make such assumptions or jump to such absolute conclusions about me just because of one instance.

Well, you said you think this thread should be archived (aka trashed). If you were a mod, I'm sure you would have done it. and that is bad modding imo. But the bullet thing I said was just a joke.

As for off-topic.. this discussion about grinding is not actually off-topic. It's what this thread is about because upgrade prices effect on the amount of grinding in the game.

Unfortunately there is also a lot of drama (again) because some users don't know what grinding means and think that all games are required to have grinding.

[Scaredgirl]

I though it should have been archived the second SG ruined it with her bullsh*t logic and flaming, but that's just me.

Lol, are you talking about logic? You are the kid who said:

Any game needs grind, without it games would be boring.

Grinding is boring by definition, Einstein. And there was a time (before you were born) when there was no grinding in games so don't tell me it can't be done.

I really should know better than to start arguing with an angry 13 year old boy. I don't know if this forum has an ignore function, but if it has you are going straight to my ignore list.

Okay, if nobody is going to continue with a constructive discussion regarding the OP, I think this thread should be archived.

I wouldn't worry too much about going off-topic. That's what sometimes happens in a discussion. As long as people are talking about the game and not football, it's all good imo. If someone has something to say about the original post, then can still do so.

I actually voted you to be our forum mod but seems like we dodged a bullet as you seem to be keen on locking topics without a good reason

[Scaredgirl]

What Forfeit is saying makes sense, this topic is supposed to be about upgrading prices not grinding. This makes the level of grinding within elements valid but grinding as a whole and its place in the gaming world not relevant to this particular topic.

I see these "omg delete this topic!", "this is off-topic!" and "Waah! Scaredgirl said this.. waah waah!" as a type a psychological defense mechanism. When a person has nothing more intelligent to say. That's generally something like wanting to somehow to stop the other guy from posting (like locking the thread or banning the person) or personal attacks. I've seen plenty of these two strategies here. The reason for this is that many online gamers have a really bad self-esteem. They get dominated in real life and when they come here, they feel like they can anonymously have their revenge. Their egos are very fragile and "losing" an argument is never an option to them.

Sometimes thread starts as something and evolves into something else. That's what happens with discussion sometimes. I've started many threads on this forum and sometimes the discussion goes to something totally off-topic but do you see me crying about it? No. I don't "own" that thread and I don't decide what people can and can't talk about. Luckily we have two mods that have done a very good job so far. I can only imagine what the situation would be if you and Forfeit were mods, lol.

The funny thing is that no matter how much you forum police guys try to spin it, grinding is related to upgrade prices, and anyone who doesn't understand that is a class A moron in my books.

[Sigh]

I personally like a bit of grind, it helps me cool down if I'm all hyped up about the new content which will probably start to bore me if I keep looking/playing it. Plus, the "unofficial" trainer is so popular because of the new gods and stuff being "released."

Off Topic: WoW is a low-budget MMO? Hmm, never woulda guessed...

Also, SG? You think half the forum has a personal vendetta against you. Just saying...

[WaffleT2]

What Forfeit is saying makes sense, this topic is supposed to be about upgrading prices not grinding. This makes the level of grinding within elements valid but grinding as a whole and its place in the gaming world not relevant to this particular topic.

We were so close to actually moving away from the discussion of grinding but Scaredgirl rose to Lynxions bait and used to opportunity to give her opinion on grinding... again.
You know that it is possible to ignore someone without the help of an ignore button? Just a suggestion ^^

I think making different upgrade prices for each card sounds like a good idea. The price for each card in the bazaar has been chosen pretty well to reflect the usefulness of that particular card so i think basing the upgrade prices on how much the card costs seems like a step in the right direction

[WaffleT2]

Or a diffent wheel we pay ~700 to use, and it may upgrade a radom card in your deck

Or you could make it that when you won a match there would be a reel of every card in your deck and if you get three in a row then that card gets upgraded   

[bobcamel]

RuneScape has real quests. With storylines, unrepetiveness, and just awesome.

Too bad the rest of the game is grind. But well, other MMOs are grind without quests.

[Demongod]

Any "20 Bear Asses" quest is a grind.  Consider this: you can make a quest that requires someone to kill 200 of one monster, and then 200 of another monster, and have like 100 of those "quests".  That's just about grinding, aside from a token reward.

Quests should be short and involve doing novel things. 

For instance, Diablo 2 has 27 of them.

Act 1:
Quest 1: Kill some monsters.
Quest 2: Kill a boss.
Quest 3: Save someone.
Quest 4: Kill a special monster.
Quest 5: Retrieve an item.
Quest 6: Kill act boss.

Act 2:
Quest 1: Kill a boss.
Quest 2: Assemble an item.
Quest 3: Destroy a structure.
Quest 4: Reach a certain place.
Quest 5: Kill a special monster.
Quest 6: Kill act boss.

Act 3:
Quest 1: Get a special item
Quest 2: Get a special item
Quest 3: Assemble an item.
Quest 4: Retrieve an item.
Quest 5: Kill three special monsters.
Quest 6: Kill act boss.

Act 4:
Quest 1: Kill a special monster.
Quest 2: Destroy a certain item.
Quest 3: Kill act boss.

Act 5:
Quest 1: Kill a special monster.
Quest 2: Save some people.
Quest 3: Save someone.
Quest 4: Kill a boss.
Quest 5: Defeat 3 special "monsters."
Quest 6: Kill act boss.

What's common about all of these?  They are not repetitive.  The actual objective of the quest is relatively quick.  However, getting to that point is what takes a while.  Low-budget games simply have the quest be the actual grind.  Rather than "kill 1 monster but odds are you'll have to kill 100 between here and there", the low budget game will simply tell you "kill 100 monsters".

That's the difference between good and bad game design.

[Demongod]

I'm not saying D2 had no grind.  I'm saying the quests weren't the grind.  Now if you could find a way to make a bunch of these non-grind quests that gave the rewards of grinding, well, we have a solution.