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ondajohn

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8469#msg8469
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Okay, I've read the entire thread and I completely agree with Scaredgirl on her views of grinding, however, considering the game is developed by a single person, it will probably take a while to be able to implement enough new content to get rid of it.

@Everyone who thinks upgrade prices should be higher/thinks there should be more grinding in general: I think you may be forgetting that while you guys enjoy the grind (or think you enjoy it? I don't understand how you can possibly enjoy grinding), there are more new players coming to this game, who have fun at first, but lose interest quickly when they figure out that they can't progress without hours of their time dedicated to an incredibly boring time sink into a single aspect of the game. Increasing the cost of upgrading cards will just ward off even more new players. Now, would you quit playing Elements if the grind is taken out? No, of course you wouldn't. The game would suddenly become more enjoyable for everyone. The problem here isn't with the cost of upgrading cards, it's with the lack of content in the game. While the game has fun aspects about it even with the grind, no one can deny that the game would be better with less grind and more content. If there were more things to do, the developer wouldn't need the grind in there to keep people playing. In the mean time though, lowering the cost of upgrading cards would not hurt the user base at all. You guys would still play, and newer players would be able to build up their decks quicker allowing them to also enjoy the game.

Changing topics slightly, I used to play World of Warcraft. That game has a horrible tendency for grinding. The only reason I played it as long as I did, was that I was hoping it would get better. I quit multiple times, I'd say upwards of four times, and always ended up returning to it, with hopes that it would be less grindy grindy and more fun fun. It never happened, and to this day it remains a ridiculous grind fest. My point is that there are so many players out there who will allow these companies to rip them off and continue to play games they're not even enjoying, but there is absolutely NO incentive to reduce the grind in many of these games. If the players continue to pay their monthly fee, and developers don't see dwindling numbers in their subscribers, they will only add as much content as they see necessary to keep their user base. Thus, the grind continues. I guess the difference is that Elements has a smaller, more dedicated crowd that realizes the game does not have the resources it needs in order to become fun for everyone, whereas with MMO games the developers just simply refuse to add content at a quicker pace because the players allow themselves to be ripped off regardless of how much content is in the game.

Scaredgirl

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8470#msg8470
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Man, everybody just chill out... You too, SG. The grind is in place to keep us gamers occupied so zanzarino doesn't have to introduce new content every week. I think when zanzarino introduced the false god decks, he may have overestimated the amount of time it would take us to figure out how to beat them. Since they are so easy now, the grind has gotten shorter, no level of AI is easy, and us gamers are left wanting more, as baby birds with mouths eagerly open to be fed.
I think you need to chill out.

We are not talking about Elements here, you know? At least I am not. We are talking about grinding in general and what role it should have in online gaming.

If you read my previous posts, you will see that I agree with you. I'm not expecting Zanzarino to stop sleeping and code Elements 24/7. I think he is doing a good job with this game. But that does not mean we cannot talk about how Elements could be improved in the future. You see there's a big difference between whining and constructive feedback.

Scaredgirl

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8471#msg8471
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Okay, I've read the entire thread and I completely agree with Scaredgirl on her views of grinding, however, considering the game is developed by a single person, it will probably take a while to be able to implement enough new content to get rid of it.

@Everyone who thinks upgrade prices should be higher/thinks there should be more grinding in general: I think you may be forgetting that while you guys enjoy the grind (or think you enjoy it? I don't understand how you can possibly enjoy grinding), there are more new players coming to this game, who have fun at first, but lose interest quickly when they figure out that they can't progress without hours of their time dedicated to an incredibly boring time sink into a single aspect of the game. Increasing the cost of upgrading cards will just ward off even more new players. Now, would you quit playing Elements if the grind is taken out? No, of course you wouldn't. The game would suddenly become more enjoyable for everyone. The problem here isn't with the cost of upgrading cards, it's with the lack of content in the game. While the game has fun aspects about it even with the grind, no one can deny that the game would be better with less grind and more content. If there were more things to do, the developer wouldn't need the grind in there to keep people playing. In the mean time though, lowering the cost of upgrading cards would not hurt the user base at all. You guys would still play, and newer players would be able to build up their decks quicker allowing them to also enjoy the game.
Thank you. I was beginning to think I was somehow been transported to an alien planet where grinding is a national sport.

You speak the truth. While some hardcore players might not have problem with grinding, most casuals will most definitely have a problem with it. All my casual gaming friends would quit the game in a heartbeat if they had to grind 6 hours to try a new deck.

I personally pretty much stopped playing the game because I just bored with grinding money. I don't think I have used the main client in weeks. I've done all my Elements gaming in the trainer, and that's what I'm continuing to do until something new comes along.

Scaredgirl

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8472#msg8472
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

For the most part I agree with you here about my preferences in a game, Scaredgirl.  However, this definition leaves the designation of 'grinding' up to the individual.
Actually grinding is pretty easy to define and it's not up to each individual to have their own definition. Whether or not you like the process, it doesn't change the process itself.

A series of quests that are not entertaining to someone could be defined by a person as grinding, and at the same time be defined as not grinding by another person who enjoys the quests.
That is not grinding. Boring game? Sure. But not grinding. Having to do the same quest over and over again.. that would be grinding.

Basically if what you are doing chances and is different every time, then it's not grinding no matter how non-entertaining it might feel.

Sigh

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8473#msg8473
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

There is a modify button cisco...

But just because there is no grind does not mean that it is "the easy way out." Like SG said, you can have a good game without having lots of grind. Although isn't this game having "immediate fun" the point of this game as well? By playing any level you want at any time ('cept for gods of course) you get immediate gratification while at the same time"grinding."

zakal

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8474#msg8474
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

low. People complain about them being too high, I think they're too low. You're only suppose to have 2 decks, or one if it's good at gods and pvp. So yeah, I think prices should be raised, anyone support me here?
Getting back to the O.P, I think the upgrade prices detract from multi-player.  Multi-player seems like, (to me,) the real end-game of Elements and I would be thrilled to have more people able/competent to field good PvP decks in multi-player games.  This is why I have been trying to field a good rare-farm deck when not playing for any length of time, (when my limited memory can comply with my wishes that is.  ;)

zakal

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8475#msg8475
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive and/or non-entertaining gameplay in order to gain access to other features within the game.[/i]
For the most part I agree with you here about my preferences in a game, Scaredgirl.  However, this definition leaves the designation of 'grinding' up to the individual.  A series of quests can be considered repetitive by a person.  Doing the same thing over and over can be considered entertaining by a person.  A series of quests that are not entertaining to someone could be defined by a person as grinding, and at the same time be defined as not grinding by another person who enjoys the quests.  At the same time, playing the same game over and over while being entertained could just as easily be considered not grinding.  This definition basically leaves it up to the individual as to weather it is grinding or not.  This leads me to conclude that something being 'grinding' is an opinion, not a definable fact.  Like music or beauty. 

zakal

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8476#msg8476
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:12 pm »

Quote from: Scaredgirl
Thank you. I was beginning to think I was somehow been transported to an alien planet where grinding is a national sport.
Did you not notice that almost everyone, including me, agrees with your point of view on how the best, (most enjoyable,) flow of game play works?  I would love to see your ideas about quests vs. grind for new/upgraded cards implemented, but still you want to act like the lone gunman.  I agree with you, but your attitude is getting old.

Celidion

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8658#msg8658
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:13 pm »

Scaredgirl just wants everyone to agree with her and say that grinding isn't okay. I'm not even going to go more in-depth as I'm bored of this topic since scaredgirl will just argue till everyone gives up, like I have.

Forfeit

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8659#msg8659
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:13 pm »

Meh, I guess I'll get involved. >.>

Waffle, no point in arguing, she's just going to attack you now. =/

As for SG's post, I for one detest grinding for long periods of time. If I have a quest to kill 30 of this monster, then sure, I'll do that, but just killing the same monster over and over, or repeating the same dungeon over and over, without any reward other than a few percent points to the next level, is rather boring.

That's not to say that "everyone hates it." My girlfriend enjoys grinding. She says that it's a mindless task that she can do without much thought, which allows her to chat with friends while doing it, or just think, or listen to music, etc. Really, there's really no way to get a Bishop on MapleStory up to level 169 unless you grind...>.>
Hmm, music, maybe that's why I don't mind grinding. Personalyl, I think grinding is better than just having everything, where's the fun in that? Sure grinding = not best option, but complaining about it = even worse option.

Sometimes we need repetitive tasks, just so the mind can be ignored. Of course there should be more in this game for the players that will never admit to the at least one time that they enjoyed what they were doing. Wondering who I'm thinking of there?

Edit: Wasn't this topic about upgrade prices?

Scaredgirl

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I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8660#msg8660
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:13 pm »

Scaredgirl just wants everyone to agree with her and say that grinding isn't okay. I'm not even going to go more in-depth as I'm bored of this topic since scaredgirl will just argue till everyone gives up, like I have.
Go cry somewhere else buddy.

Most gamers hate grinding because it's by definition boring. Maybe you are some kind of addicted nut job who thinks he's having fun by doing the same thing over and over again, I don't know. But I do have tons of experience in online gaming and I do know that 95% of gaming community hates grinding. That's all I'm saying.

I think upgrade prices are too... https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8661#msg8661
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:13 pm »

Meh, I guess I'll get involved. >.>

Waffle, no point in arguing, she's just going to attack you now. =/

As for SG's post, I for one detest grinding for long periods of time. If I have a quest to kill 30 of this monster, then sure, I'll do that, but just killing the same monster over and over, or repeating the same dungeon over and over, without any reward other than a few percent points to the next level, is rather boring.

That's not to say that "everyone hates it." My girlfriend enjoys grinding. She says that it's a mindless task that she can do without much thought, which allows her to chat with friends while doing it, or just think, or listen to music, etc. Really, there's really no way to get a Bishop on MapleStory up to level 169 unless you grind...>.>

 

blarg: