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Astrocyte

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349315#msg349315
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2011, 01:09:17 am »
However, what is more fun is competitive PvP, which is mostly unupgraded and requires almost no grinding time.
So I'm really not sure why you think grinding is an important part of Elements. It isn't unless you want it to be.
If you're just talking about straight PvP1, yeah, you don't need much to get going.

If you're talking about tournaments, league, events, and War -- the trouble is that to be competitive in most of these (and to even participate in a lot of them), you need to have most or all of the unupped cards and a sizeable collection of rares. If you've got enough cards for a few decks and a scattered assortment of rares, you're not going to be able to do much. And how do you get more money (to buy cards) and rares?... You grind.  :/

Offline EvaRia

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349323#msg349323
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2011, 01:16:03 am »
However, what is more fun is competitive PvP, which is mostly unupgraded and requires almost no grinding time.
So I'm really not sure why you think grinding is an important part of Elements. It isn't unless you want it to be.
If you're just talking about straight PvP1, yeah, you don't need much to get going.

If you're talking about tournaments, league, events, and War -- the trouble is that to be competitive in most of these (and to even participate in a lot of them), you need to have most or all of the unupped cards and a sizeable collection of rares. If you've got enough cards for a few decks and a scattered assortment of rares, you're not going to be able to do much. And how do you get more money (to buy cards) and rares?... You grind.  :/
As I said earlier, I actually pretty much get all the money I need for PvP Events from Oracle.

The rares you need to grind for though, but if you don't care for score you can selective farm grind and get them in one or two sittings depending on what farms are up.

Offline pikachufan2164

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349331#msg349331
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2011, 01:19:48 am »
However, what is more fun is competitive PvP, which is mostly unupgraded and requires almost no grinding time.
So I'm really not sure why you think grinding is an important part of Elements. It isn't unless you want it to be.
If you're just talking about straight PvP1, yeah, you don't need much to get going.

If you're talking about tournaments, league, events, and War -- the trouble is that to be competitive in most of these (and to even participate in a lot of them), you need to have most or all of the unupped cards and a sizeable collection of rares. If you've got enough cards for a few decks and a scattered assortment of rares, you're not going to be able to do much. And how do you get more money (to buy cards) and rares?... You grind.  :/
As I said earlier, I actually pretty much get all the money I need for PvP Events from Oracle.

The rares you need to grind for though, but if you don't care for score you can selective farm grind and get them in one or two sittings depending on what farms are up.
Also, if you're in a team event (War, Draft, TPvP, etc.), there's a good chance that at least one of your teammates is able to stay on T50 for a while and can put up farms for you.
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Astrocyte

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349364#msg349364
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2011, 02:23:01 am »
As I said earlier, I actually pretty much get all the money I need for PvP Events from Oracle.

The rares you need to grind for though, but if you don't care for score you can selective farm grind and get them in one or two sittings depending on what farms are up.
Also, if you're in a team event (War, Draft, TPvP, etc.), there's a good chance that at least one of your teammates is able to stay on T50 for a while and can put up farms for you.
Both true. You need to be aware of farms, though (before I discovered the forums, whenever I stumbled on a farm in T50 I thought the game was messed up and reloaded  :'( )... and on the forums so you can play team events, and a good/reputable enough player already that someone in T50 wants you on their team.

But I know I'm starting to sound like I'm nitpicking and repeating myself now, so I'll be quiet for a while. ;D

Skydaemon

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349489#msg349489
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2011, 09:03:09 am »
I play both as well.  I have a preference for tyrant at the moment.

On elements, I've upped 833 cards and collected 14 nymphs.  That's somewhere around 2/3 of the way through upgrades, that's taken me a couple of years of on-and-off again upgrading, pretty much since the game started.

On tyrants I'm lvl 47 and am missing 3 standard and 3 enclave cards, and have finished all missions, achievements and raids other than oluth.  I plan to join a guild soon when I find an appropriate one for me.

Generally speaking I find elements to be less fun, and more of a grind.  The bugs (desyncs, game play bugs, cheating etc) directly interfere with my enjoyment of the game in elements, and I miss the total lack of a social element (something the forum tries to provide and mostly fails).  I also miss the complete lack of point to progress in elements.  What benefit is there to upping cards?  There basically is none.  I've upped 833 cards, I use about 35, which I swap around about once a month out of boredom, not because of any actual reason.  In tyrants, gaining access to cards revolves around collective endeavors in pve (raids) and pvp (guild/faction growth through wars), in turn, your card stock aids you in doing those activities.  It's not great, but it's more than elements has.  Grinding in tyrants means 2 weeks of mostly waiting for timers to expire.  Grinding on elements means 2 years of the same fg battles using the same deck, or not far removed from that.  The energy system in tyrants is a good thing as well, as it limits the value of botting and renders it a more casual type of game than it would otherwise be.

At the end of the day, I enjoy playing tyrants, and look forward to expansions coming out, which means more missions, more raids, more card concepts and new challenges.  The additional grinding is a minor part of expansions.  That's mostly not the case in elements, where expansions just mean more grinding, and I don't think anyone looks forward to grinding fg's for electrum.  Taking the last version upgrade in elements, it had the bonus of upgrading the AI difficulty, which had the effect of making grinding marginally harder.  Awesome.  I know I should've been pleased at better ai and having to alter my grinding deck, but you know, I just wasn't.

The paying player thing in tyrants is disappointing, but it's not that big of a deal for the most part.  I've played games that had it worse in that respect.  It doesn't really affect pve, and pvp is mostly on a guild basis, so it's not essential for every single member to pay for a guild to compete.  I've gained elite (ie, access to the store) and used 145 warbonds without spending a dime, so even as a free player, you do have minor access to the same stuff, just not in bulk.

Anyway, for what it's worth I rated both games the same.  The games are what they are, and both are mediocre specimens of their breed.

xathil

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349499#msg349499
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2011, 10:57:09 am »
xathil, you have this silly assumption that Elements is all about upgrades and playing AI.
If you are in to that stuff, then you can spend a lot of time doing that.
However, what is more fun is competitive PvP, which is mostly unupgraded and requires almost no grinding time.
So I'm really not sure why you think grinding is an important part of Elements. It isn't unless you want it to be.
It's silly insofar as I treat elements as another game i play. casually, maybe a few hours a day, maybe once every few days depending on my mood. Tyrants is good about that. I have an energy bar and a stamina bar. It takes me less than 20 minutes to completely drain both even at my slowest and at some point the "mandatory" grinding stops. Elements? If you want to be "involved" you need to a) join the forums b) wait for events to happen c) play regularly.

Weekend tournaments are mostly unupped? Great. Unfortunately weekends are also my busiest times because I do have a social life. Be it board games, a movie, dinner/lunch etc. Weekends are when I spend my time socially. I do all the anti social stuff like play elements in the dead of night or when I have down time during the week. Weekend tournaments dont work for me.
Likewise, things like WoE require too much time to setup, prepare for. Time I simply dont have. I'm sure it works great for anyone that does participate but my schedule isn't one that allows it. WoE's "show up at least every 2 days" for battles just doesn't work for me. Sure I know im not going to be in battles all the time. But I also dont have the same amount of free time (or mental energy) to keep up with something like that. Between keeping track of a character sheet, moving, and looking for opponents I'm supposed to fight.

If I decide to step away from tyrants? Nothing happens. My defense deck fights on it's own (and wins a good amount too) I simply miss out on exp/gold i could have gotten with my wasted energy/stamina. I'm one of the top 100 players in tyrants probably since I'm in the second highest rated faction (and the ONLY fights we lose are against the highest rated one) my faction IS strong enough to let people decide to take a break... which I did a few weeks ago when i went to Yosemite for a family vacation for 4 days. Unsurprisingly... I was still in my faction. Faction wars last 6 hours at a time. I can show up. I can be sleeping. Someone starts a raid? I can jump right in. I can ignore it. and raids require as much or as little player planning as you would like. You can start a raid and post it in the chat. or you can start a raid, and tell your friends. The line between public raids and private raids is fuzzy enough and they happen often enough that I can join either at a whim. Point being. I can get as involved or withdraw from the game as MUCH or as little as I want with very little notice on tyrants. I play on MY schedule MY terms. All the forums based elements stuff DOESNT allow me that flexibility.

So yes... for me playing the FGs (and thus upgrading cards) seems to be the limit of how much I can play elements. Let me know when there's competitive PVP at MORE times, MORE flexible. If anyone has played MTG drafts at all. Basically like that. They happen when theres enough people for them to happen. Or if they adapt something like the MTG tournament sealed decks. You get your cards (like WoE), then you can just play other people around the same rating.

Anyhow. Let me know when element's "events" stop being player run (which is HIGHLY time consuming for organizers) and gets coded into the game so its flexible for all players. like PVP1 (except with more challenge, better rewards, less bugs/dcs etc) Then sure. Maybe my assumptions aren't so silly after all.

EDIT: and for those who think warbonds are the start and end of tyrants... I highly disagree. I've spent probably 200 or so and I've paid 0 for them. You get WB randomly as you get nymphs from the Oracle and WB are about the same as nymphs. Very useful, very valuable but the game is still VERY much playable without them. And as an entirely free player, I can tell you I can beat players that PAID for most of their decks (you can see it from the cards they have multiples of) I still have an average win rate of about 90%+ on tyrants. I AM one of the top players but I dont buy warbonds and I'm not playing 24/7. Warbonds only give you a VERY small SHORT term advantage that smart, long term playing will eventually overshadow. Honestly I feel warbonds are probably one of THE better free2play mechanisms designed so far out of all the games I've played (and I've played a good few free2play... but quit most of them because they were more pay2win than free2play with the top of the game requiring pay2win stuff to get through) but tyrant's simply isn't one of them. Sure it's not as deep a game, but the mechanics and gameplay are solid for a free2play game thats still highly strategic but still allows a LARGE degree of freedom in a sporadic, persistent environment.

Kael Hate

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349503#msg349503
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2011, 11:24:56 am »

I like Both, I play Both.

I encourage everyone to experience everything you can and if you like it stick with it, if not thats ok.

I never felt obligated to spend a cent on either Elements or Tyrant and as I see the objective to waste time while getting a reactive technical experience collecting cards I probably wont unless zanz offers malignant cell as a donator card.
If putting money into the game makes you feel you are getting a better experience, do it. The developers can use the cash for their effort.

Offline Picheleiro

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349510#msg349510
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2011, 12:26:18 pm »
I only play three games every day because of the grind. I lost all faith in game when I realized the amount of time that you have to spend to play PvP2 and tournaments with upgrade decks. I can play in PvP 1 but its too easy the most of the time. Too much newbies.

And the lack of cards its a problem too, im here by years and im tired of the same cards. Sorry to say this, but its what i feel.

Offline daccoo

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349512#msg349512
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2011, 12:32:32 pm »
M8 if you asc me just chill and relax !!!!
Games are only GAMES!!!

Offline daccoo

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349513#msg349513
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2011, 12:41:11 pm »
I only play three games every day because of the grind. I lost all faith in game when I realized the amount of time that you have to spend to play PvP2 and tournaments with upgrade decks. I can play in PvP 1 but its too easy the most of the time. Too much newbies.

And the lack of cards its a problem too, im here by years and im tired of the same cards. Sorry to say this, but its what i feel.
Man ... WTF are you talking about ... there are good players in PVP 1 and you do not need a lot of time to start PVP 2 ... and tournaments are not all with upgraded decks ... AND ABOUT THAT NEWBIES part ... i have no comment (i like to say something but ill  get perma ban ... )

Offline Picheleiro

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Re: i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=27358.msg349514#msg349514
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2011, 12:54:13 pm »
Man ... WTF are you talking about ... there are good players in PVP 1 and you do not need a lot of time to start PVP 2 ... and tournaments are not all with upgraded decks ... AND ABOUT THAT NEWBIES part ... i have no comment (i like to say something but ill  get perma ban ... )
You dont need to get mad. When im talking about newbies, i mean people with 20 matchs in their backs. Maybe its my time zone, but in PvP 1 i fight about 60-70% of the time with that kind of player.

About tournaments maybe im wrong. But i cant write in English very well and pass my thoughs properly.

 

anything
blarg: