i am almost ashamed of the kongregate community right now

[Rutarete]

I played tyrant on Kongregate for a while, and ive played Elements, and other ones, and ive kept Elements as one of the best for now. Ive thinking about all of your reasons, and i think you are basically right.

I gave both games 5 stars at Kongregate, but ill lower my rating for Tyrant. I became sick of all those pay-to-win mechanics, so count me as a success in your call.

Couldn't of said it better myself. I rated Tyrant a 3.

[Pineapple]

I've been playing ETG for months and it's starting to feel a lot less like a fun game and a lot more like a loyalty test: If I KEEP grinding the same opponents with the same couple of decks (which stopped being fun a while ago), then I'll EVENTUALLY be able to fully participate in the fun "real game" -- tournaments and leagues and PvP events. And there's no rewards and nothing fun to do in the meantime -- not even playing with deckbuilding, because you need to pick one deck and stick with it for a long time to be successful -- and why risk money/score/having to start all over from building and testing your own deck, when there's a whole forum of other people's rigorously tested decks to pick from? (And how is a noob supposed to find the trainer without the forums, anyway?)

If wanting my game to be fun for the majority of the time I'm playing it means I don't "have the right" to "call myself a gamer," and wanting more rewards (or at least some feedback!) for sitting on my @#$ clicking buttons makes me "lazy," then some people on this forum really need to get out more.

This.

[EvaRia]

Honestly, I'm an exception to the grind rule...

I really hate the grind in EtG myself. I wish it were easier to up cards.

I basically grinded just enough to get myself a working FG deck, and now I get most of my income literally from the Oracle.

I spend my time playing unupped PvP games and it's great.

Compared to most vets who easily have 100k score or more I'm sitting at about 4.5k atm.


You DON'T have to grind excessively to enjoy Elements, you just need to know what you're doing.
If you wanna play upped however, playing against FGs is a must. (Which is something that should change IMO.)

[jjh295]

I've played both Tyrant and Elements and I don't understand the appeal of Tyrant. I've rated Tyrant a 2, while I've rated Elements a 5.

To each his own, though.

[Flama]

Started with ETG, went to Tyrant, and back to ETG. I think that sums it all up.

[Marvaddin]

I rated EtG 5. If I remember well, rated Tyrant 4.

The main problem about Tyrant is that energy thing. You cant play as much as you would like (without some real money involved). This is ridiculous. Also, most unlockable cards arent near useful. If you want a good deck, you need to grind a lot AND have luck when buying the packs. In EtG, you need much less grinding to get a good deck to play vs AI3 or PVP1. And beyond that, there are packs you can just play using bonds, mostly earned with real money. How I love these "free" games you are allowed to play but cant compete with players that use money.

Tyrant got me playing it for several days (energy thing) for badges. Got them. When they launched last missions, I thought about return to play them, but when I load the game, I usually just open dialy crate and am absolutely lazy about playing. I think I wont even play it again, lol.

1) We should start a petition to change Tyrant to MMO category.

2) I will change my rate of all games that are higher than EtG in Multiplayer to 1. If every one that loves EtG does the same, maybe it can go up.

[xathil]

I'll put some things in perspective. I'm a top 2 faction player in tyrant. Yes. my faction is SECOND out of all the 300+ factions.
1. The auto button. it helps reduce the grind. Elements has none of that and MORE grind. nuff said. the grind is a HUGE turn off when you are trying to get upgraded cards... normal cards you buy for under 150 gold a piece... then suddenly you need 1500?
2. Updates. Tyrants gets updates REGULARLY. In the time I've played tyrants they have released more cards, faction wars, raids. In the time i played elements... they released one SET of cards totalling less than 10.
3. The multiplayer interactions are WELL MANAGED INSIDE THE GAME. Faction wars, raids, faction chat. To play elements you need to dig through dozens of stickies.

The irony is.. I'm not even that big a tyrants fan. I haven't spent ANY money on the game at all. I do have the elite from picking up random warbonds off the daily boxes (equivalent of the oracle nymphs except warbonds are less rare and worth MORE)
Tyrant does ALOT of things well. Both games are VERY similar in that all your battles are played practically against the AI (In elements the only time you play against players is the pvp1/2/friend options but realistically you wont be grinding those for the money you need to upgrade decks or buy cards)

1.Packs in tyrant are random, but you play long enough you will get everything you want (im sitting on 5 airstrikes, 3 emps, EQG, tesla, 4 silos) between luck and just grinding it out, you hit the top tier stuff pretty fast especially with the achievements. And picking up a good rare makes a BIG impact in your deck IMMEDIATELY since you only play 11 cards. playing about the same amount of time per day (say about 2 hours) you manage 500 stamina+500 energy worth of cash and probably a level every other day. Thats how much I play. 2 hours of grinding in elements... I might make enough to upgrade 2 cards. Except those two cards dont really let me change my deck alot. I'm about 50% done with my VNG but none of those cards are of any use for a RoL/Hope deck for FG farming, and how much gold i get in elements is HIGHLY variable due to farms or real rush decks. i can spend 2 hours and barely gain anything from slots, win some lose some. On the other hand I might get lucky and get relics and weapons to sell.

All in all progression in Tyrants is ALOT better. switching your deck just means switching a few cards. Switching your deck in elements requires buying a whole new set, then upgrading them from scratch. For the more casual player, the amount of grind WILL be a problem. Most people wont spend a few extra hours to upgrade a few cards they cant even use in a new deck idea they have. The whole upgrade mechanic along with the cost is just HIGHLY detrimental to keeping players. its why I quit elements probably a year+ back and likely to be the same reason why I will likely quit in the future.

2. Updates. I understand this is a free game. I understand zanz has alot to do by himself. but updates bring alot to the game. not only does it change the gameplay, it generates DISCUSSION. even if people aren't playing they are talking about it? that keeps people coming back. elements has been around long enough for most of the main deckarchtypes to be defined and the "best" stuff is basically set in stone. until there are more additions, theres not going to be a whole lot of discussion about gameplay change.

3. community. I understand theres the WoE stuff going on. unfortunately NONE of it gets publicized IN the game. Vs tyrants.. faction wars, raids are right there as menu items. you couldn't miss them if you tried. and both feature a cooperative element which REQUIRES you to play with other people. Elements is always you vs one other. AI/person. There are no greater objectives, goals, achievements. There are time limits, objective goals, so you can jump in and join the fray. WoE is player run, and between locked cardpools, set teams etc, new players that want to get involved can't. just too many barriers to entry.

Sure. I totally agree elements is the deeper game. The problem is its also more luck based, and designed to be slow with all the grind. Elements has the better design, but the execution is worse.

[DrunkDestroyer]

In general, you can't find the "real" Elements until you sign up here in the forums. This is where you get all your info, advice, etc.

Then Zanz needs to put the link to the forums on the main site, and surround it with flashing lights.

Slightly off topic

The forum almost made the game too easy.
I doubt I would have liked the game nearly as much if I hadn't learned the basics and more (right up to beating my first False God, upgrading a few cards, owning PvP with my troll-copy rainbow, making some weird decks of my own - time earth grav trio) with pretty much myself, and sometimes a few helpful Kongers.

The forums were cool when I was losing my own interest, and I had passed the major learning curve. I would have hated for that to all be done by the forum, and I probably wouldn't be playing now.

Even with my upped CCYB and T50 Grinder, I'm thinking that my upping cards is just as fast now as it was then. Which says a lot about how much the game captivated me.
(Of course, the events and such here make it much better - IMO I hit the forums and pretty much the perfect time in my "career")

[vikingz]

Well first of all i´m a casual gamer, so there´s exactly one pvp game i used to stick to, and thats elements (i dont´t even know Tyrants, i think).

My patience happens to be kinda not existing, that`s why i also just read the first couple of replies here (*sorry*) ...somehow goes along with the casual gaming idea, i guess, besides having a lot of real life as well.

Having been on kong since 2008, i can´t believe i never rated Elements, which is an obvious 5/5. Thanx for the topic 

/edit: oh dear, i thought that was my second post here, it just says 1 *grml*

[silux]

tyrant
5/5 when i started deck building, won the first missions and o.o for the cards' art
4/5 when i discovered what Warbonds are
3/5 when i discovered the price of the rares
2/5 when i discovered how much energy was sucked away by missions and raids
4/5 when  idiscovered arena unlock and auto-play button
2/5+QUIT when the new set of cards was avaible only trough Warbonds

elements
3/5 when i started playing
4/5 when i discovered lvl3 top50 and pvp
3/5 when i discovered how much upgrade cost and how hard are FG
2/5 when i discovered how hard is to farm shard of readiness from t50
5/5+QUIT when i discovered the forum and the wiki

Now i play elements only when i come up with a new deck idea or the oracle visit

[Jangoo]

2/5+QUIT when the new set of cards was avaible only trough Warbonds

I can see that.

5/5+QUIT when i discovered the forum and the wiki

Huh? Where is the reason behind that?

[RootRanger]

xathil, you have this silly assumption that Elements is all about upgrades and playing AI.
If you are in to that stuff, then you can spend a lot of time doing that.
However, what is more fun is competitive PvP, which is mostly unupgraded and requires almost no grinding time.
So I'm really not sure why you think grinding is an important part of Elements. It isn't unless you want it to be.