Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zeshin on July 22, 2010, 11:32:43 am
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Now this is no rant, but I have to get it out.
I can take that the False Gods "cheat", it's supposed to be hard.
I can take that I can have bad draws, it's random after all.
I can take that the quantum pillars tick in everything but the one quanta I need, it's random after all.
I can take that you can have bad luck 30 straight FG games in a row, statistically improbable but it can happen.
Those things are all frustrating, but that's not what really makes me want to just close the browser and do something else. After wasting thousands of gold on skipping/failing on the hard FG, lucking out on the easy FG and then when you finally get a break and beat a FG and you get ~40 gold and NO card. AAARGH! :'(
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Heh, looks like you'll need to take a one-day break and come back the next day calmer. :P
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Now this is no rant, but I have to get it out.
I can take that the False Gods "cheat", it's supposed to be hard.
I can take that I can have bad draws, it's random after all.
I can take that the quantum pillars tick in everything but the one quanta I need, it's random after all.
I can take that you can have bad luck 30 straight FG games in a row, statistically improbable but it can happen.
Those things are all frustrating, but that's not what really makes me want to just close the browser and do something else. After wasting thousands of gold on skipping/failing on the hard FG, lucking out on the easy FG and then when you finally get a break and beat a FG and you get ~40 gold and NO card. AAARGH! :'(
I've had those days too. Just wait till you kill a FG by the skin of your teeth and then roll three decent upgrades (it does happen). It almost makes up for those days where you lose game afater game against FG with bad beat after bad beat.
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Now this is no rant, but I have to get it out.
I can take that the False Gods "cheat", it's supposed to be hard.
I can take that I can have bad draws, it's random after all.
I can take that the quantum pillars tick in everything but the one quanta I need, it's random after all.
I can take that you can have bad luck 30 straight FG games in a row, statistically improbable but it can happen.
Those things are all frustrating, but that's not what really makes me want to just close the browser and do something else. After wasting thousands of gold on skipping/failing on the hard FG, lucking out on the easy FG and then when you finally get a break and beat a FG and you get ~40 gold and NO card. AAARGH! :'(
There's a lot of luck involved in this game. I have days like that ever once in a while. I went close to 12 hours one day and won no cards from the fg's. I laso has a stretch where I won ~ 40 cards in 60 games. Keep your cool, you will win card eventually.
What fg deck are you using? Switching to a better fg deck might help. I use this (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9545.0.html) with much success.
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Yeah, i was doing really well with that variant as well JMDT until this last playthrough. Losing 10 in a row really drops your win percentage. Getting Divine Glory, Hermes, Dark Matter, and Rainbow 9/10 games really does not help. Fortunately i've played enough FG games that i'm almost numb to these types of runs.
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Yeah, i was doing really well with that variant as well JMDT until this last playthrough. Losing 10 in a row really drops your win percentage. Getting Divine Glory, Hermes, Dark Matter, and Rainbow 9/10 games really does not help. Fortunately i've played enough FG games that i'm almost numb to these types of runs.
I am using that deck aslo, excellent FG killer, but luck of the FG does play a huge factor...
Today I had eternal phoenix 7 times in a row... I thought FG's were "random" Also had Darkmatter and Rainbow a couple of times today. Oddly, Osiris (usually an easy win) beat me twice today. Then again I have had neptune twice, miracle once, and just beat the snot out of FFQ with two upgrades as my prize.
Gotta take the bad with the good.
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What's more frustrating than that is getting neptune after a long string of unbeatable false gods, only to have all your damaging creatures at the bottom of the deck... I was fine as far as healing, but ended up decking out...
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What's more frustrating than that is getting neptune after a long string of unbeatable false gods, only to have all your damaging creatures at the bottom of the deck... I was fine as far as healing, but ended up decking out...
You lost to Neptune :o Bad draws can do it.
Neptune is the one fg I have never lost to (sadly I got my first Fire queen loss today :()
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What's more frustrating than that is getting neptune after a long string of unbeatable false gods, only to have all your damaging creatures at the bottom of the deck... I was fine as far as healing, but ended up decking out...
You lost to Neptune :o Bad draws can do it.
Neptune is the one fg I have never lost to (sadly I got my first Fire queen loss today :()
Yeah bad draws and good draws by the comp can really sink you. I find that if your Perma's are buried typically this deck fails. That's what seems to happen every time i play FFQ and Paradox. I also went 4 games in a row where i had 0 or 1 pillar in the 7 rounds. But like i said, you play enough you pretty much know that's how this game rolls at times.
And i have also lost to Neptune once (that one actually made me mad).
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Cheers guys, hearing someone else saying they've been there actually makes it feel a little better. :)
This is the deck I'm using.
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vm 52n 52r 592 5f8 5oj 5ro 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5up 61t 61t 621 621 621 74b 74b 7am 7am 7q5I'm not sure what do upgrade next though, Fallen Druid probably...
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Cheers guys, hearing someone else saying they've been there actually makes it feel a little better. :)
This is the deck I'm using.
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vm 52n 52r 592 5f8 5oj 5ro 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5up 61t 61t 621 621 621 74b 74b 7am 7am 7q5I'm not sure what do upgrade next though, Fallen Druid probably...
Yeah, upgrade the elf.
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Rain of Fire and Bone Wall are two other great options - they are important cards against numerous false gods and the 2-quanta drop in cost is amazingly helpful. Yes, you get better mutants with the Druid, but I find I only need mutants to kill the enemy, rarely if ever to establish control.
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Just remember the four words that make everything annoying endurable and everything beautiful a little sad.
"This too shall pass."
Then...keep grinding.
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Definitely words one can live by. :)
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Cheers guys, hearing someone else saying they've been there actually makes it feel a little better. :)
This is the deck I'm using.
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vm 52n 52r 592 5f8 5oj 5ro 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5up 61t 61t 621 621 621 74b 74b 7am 7am 7q5I'm not sure what do upgrade next though, Fallen Druid probably...
Ah, there's your problem. SG's deck doesn't work so well anymore, especially with so few upgrades. You're using only 1 hourglass. 40-card decks need 3-4. Also, your mark should be time, not life.
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Over three of my last four games, I drew a total of four towers/pillars and no novas. I'm feeling the frustration with you. :)
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I have to agree with the OP. (Yes I know it's an older post, but that doesn't mean it's not correct.)
The thing about this game, is that everything rewards you properly as far as strategy goes during the match. Playing your cards right, countering at the right times, making the right moves at the right time to win a strategic match, and you're rewarded with....maybe 15 electrum and a RANDOM SLOT MACHINE SPIN?
It's just pathetic really. I'm really close to just not playing anymore because of how unrewarding the results of a win in this game is. You don't get rewarded properly for your efforts, as far as I'm concerned. I've actually been spinning my tires all day today, using a rol/hope deck. I win most of the matches that I can actually have a chance at, but since I have to skip so many impossible to win matches, the amount of elec I win in the matches I do win doesn't cover it, and then the random casino pathetic-idea-whoever-came-up-with-it spin thing decides to not give me a card. I've won maybe 30 or so games against false gods today and gotten exactly 2 cards. I've lost piles of electrum. This is not challenging or fun. It makes me hate playing. I sit there clicking away with a grimace on my face because I know that even if I play a good match, FATE decides if I deserve a reward or not.
Does that not seem wrong to anyone else? I mean, the game is fun and all, but I don't think I will dedicate my next 4-5 months on it to be able to see what it's like to actually build my own decks because I have the electrum to do it.
Want a paypal donation? I know. How about you spin a random RNG wheel somewhere and if it says to donate, then you get to spin again and see if it's 25 cents or 1 dollar? Not very rewarding either way, is it?
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I have to agree with the OP. (Yes I know it's an older post, but that doesn't mean it's not correct.)
The thing about this game, is that everything rewards you properly as far as strategy goes during the match. Playing your cards right, countering at the right times, making the right moves at the right time to win a strategic match, and you're rewarded with....maybe 15 electrum and a RANDOM SLOT MACHINE SPIN?
It's just pathetic really. I'm really close to just not playing anymore because of how unrewarding the results of a win in this game is. You don't get rewarded properly for your efforts, as far as I'm concerned. I've actually been spinning my tires all day today, using a rol/hope deck. I win most of the matches that I can actually have a chance at, but since I have to skip so many impossible to win matches, the amount of elec I win in the matches I do win doesn't cover it, and then the random casino pathetic-idea-whoever-came-up-with-it spin thing decides to not give me a card. I've won 30 games against false gods today and gotten exactly 2 cards. I've lost piles of electrum. This is not challenging or fun. It makes me hate playing. I sit there clicking away with a grimace on my face because I know that even if I play a good match, FATE decides if I deserve a reward or not.
Does that not seem wrong to anyone else? I mean, the game is fun and all, but I don't think I will dedicate my next 4-5 months on it to be able to see what it's like to actually build my own decks because I have the electrum to do it.
Want a paypal donation? I know. How about you spin a random RNG wheel somewhere and if it says to donate, then you get to spin again and see if it's 25 cents or 1 dollar? Not very rewarding either way, is it?
This game is a lot like many others in that those that are persistant tend to reap the most.
I don't think anyone, after passing the first few quests and getting a first look at what upgrading costs are, says this game will be easy to win and build a lot of electrum/score/upp'ed cards. Point is, in order to make this game something worth coming back to one has to go through all the mucky, bloody, tear-filled ruts to get to a spot they can safely say, "phew."
Having spent a few months playing this game and grinding, grinding, grinding *mutters* I can say it is rewarding and worth it. But what makes it really fun for me to pass the grinding time is to chat with peeps suffering with the same issues. Makes it more interesting for me and prompts me to want to log in more, not only to get the better cards, but to hang out with the community. Granted, I am somewhat a new face on the forums and in the chats here, but I got to make a lot of fun online friends and that makes the grinds and pains of going up the food chain that much more fun.
I guess ultimately it's all in how you make the game out to be. If you treat it as nothing more than a miserable way to slosh through the time, I can almost guarentee you'll burn out fast. But if you explore the community, rant with others in chat about how good/bad everything is going, I'll bet there'll be peeps who will give ya a shoulder to work with. So far, peeps here are pretty good about that kind of thing ;)
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I have to agree with the OP. (Yes I know it's an older post, but that doesn't mean it's not correct.)
The thing about this game, is that everything rewards you properly as far as strategy goes during the match. Playing your cards right, countering at the right times, making the right moves at the right time to win a strategic match, and you're rewarded with....maybe 15 electrum and a RANDOM SLOT MACHINE SPIN?
It's just pathetic really. I'm really close to just not playing anymore because of how unrewarding the results of a win in this game is. You don't get rewarded properly for your efforts, as far as I'm concerned. I've actually been spinning my tires all day today, using a rol/hope deck. I win most of the matches that I can actually have a chance at, but since I have to skip so many impossible to win matches, the amount of elec I win in the matches I do win doesn't cover it, and then the random casino pathetic-idea-whoever-came-up-with-it spin thing decides to not give me a card. I've won 30 games against false gods today and gotten exactly 2 cards. I've lost piles of electrum. This is not challenging or fun. It makes me hate playing. I sit there clicking away with a grimace on my face because I know that even if I play a good match, FATE decides if I deserve a reward or not.
Does that not seem wrong to anyone else? I mean, the game is fun and all, but I don't think I will dedicate my next 4-5 months on it to be able to see what it's like to actually build my own decks because I have the electrum to do it.
Want a paypal donation? I know. How about you spin a random RNG wheel somewhere and if it says to donate, then you get to spin again and see if it's 25 cents or 1 dollar? Not very rewarding either way, is it?
This game is a lot like many others in that those that are persistant tend to reap the most.
I don't think anyone, after passing the first few quests and getting a first look at what upgrading costs are, says this game will be easy to win and build a lot of electrum/score/upp'ed cards. Point is, in order to make this game something worth coming back to one has to go through all the mucky, bloody, tear-filled ruts to get to a spot they can safely say, "phew."
Having spent a few months playing this game and grinding, grinding, grinding *mutters* I can say it is rewarding and worth it. But what makes it really fun for me to pass the grinding time is to chat with peeps suffering with the same issues. Makes it more interesting for me and prompts me to want to log in more, not only to get the better cards, but to hang out with the community. Granted, I am somewhat a new face on the forums and in the chats here, but I got to make a lot of fun online friends and that makes the grinds and pains of going up the food chain that much more fun.
I guess ultimately it's all in how you make the game out to be. If you treat it as nothing more than a miserable way to slosh through the time, I can almost guarentee you'll burn out fast. But if you explore the community, rant with others in chat about how good/bad everything is going, I'll bet there'll be peeps who will give ya a shoulder to work with. So far, peeps here are pretty good about that kind of thing ;)
The problem I have with the game is there is no normal progression. You can either grind away forever on AI3 using a rush deck in mind numbing tedium, or you can spend the electrum (after the super unfun mind numbing tedium in AI3 to even MAKE the elec you need to make the deck) on a deck that can luck out on FG's and hope the stupid spinny thing decides to be nice. When I first started this, I was barely making enough elec to even challenge the FG's. I had to go back to the super unfun, unchallenging AI3's to get the elec to even try the FG's multiple times. There is NO SENSE OF PROGRESSION IN THIS GAME. It's basically, grind until you want to claw your eyes out, then grind a little more. When you're tired of grinding mindlessly, too bad, BUCKLE UP FUCKFACE, because you're going to grind a whole lot more before you have enough electrum to stand a chance of having any fun. This game wants you to suffer for months, a slave to an RNG before you can do anything useful. It doesn't even try to make it fun while you're doing it either.
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Cheers guys, hearing someone else saying they've been there actually makes it feel a little better. :)
This is the deck I'm using.
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vm 52n 52r 592 5f8 5oj 5ro 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5rp 5up 61t 61t 621 621 621 74b 74b 7am 7am 7q5I'm not sure what do upgrade next though, Fallen Druid probably...
That's the one I use, except I changed it quite a bit.
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I don't think the highest level is best for grinding. You are lucky to win something unless you have a really good deck. Play what you can afford.
An unupped deck can beat the ai3 decks pretty well. Keep adding upgraded cards to that, and then slowly move on to the top 50 or the AI5. I have a basic deck, and I guess I could have just ''bought'' an anti god deck right away... But still, now I can win about 65-70% of the time, depending on luck. I win an upped card worth 1100 electrums 10% of the time. I doubt I will be able to do much better until I get a better deck. I don't fight the gods at all right now.
That's why it is called grinding... Hitting the low levels to save up upgrades. I have never seen anyone ''grind'' the end boss of a game, because it is effectively the end of the game. You grind ''for'' it, but you do not grind it.
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I've been collecting some statistics about this.
Grinding AI3 gives me approx 1k + another 500 for selling non-rare cards over 50 games, that's 30 / game on average. Out of my last 100 games vs False gods I won 27 (10 with EM) and got 11 cards (worth 1200). That means an income of approx 17*50+10*120+11*1200-73*30 = 13060, that's 130 / game on average.
I think that's quite comparable.
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My favorite way to avoid frustration in this game is to go wail on AI5 for a while after unlucky FG streaks. That, or head to the trainer and see what fun decks folks have come up with.
One of my favorites lately, after tweaks, is Mindgate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11431.0.html) which utterly sucks at FG's, but is fun (albeit slow) against AI5. Nothing like fighting one of the earth-based randoms, and ending the match with 1000+ HP after cloning his Stoneskin nearly 20x while rewinding one of his fielded creatures (and making several hundred electrum for that huge HP ending with EM), or doing the same with a tower draw and essentially having infinite quantum to play/do whatever you want, while you sit behind phase shields.
Bottom line is; if you're not having fun, then stop what you're doing. It's a game, so keep it that way. :D
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I couldn't agree more. I'm a WoW player, and currently have several characters at maximum level climbing the gear progression and running the high-end raids, but this week I've been hunting down an old-world item set on my mage - running weak dungeons solo hunting for a set of gear that's entirely cosmetic. People have asked me why... I told them "because it's FUN." Then they laughed!
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I couldn't agree more. I'm a WoW player, and currently have several characters at maximum level climbing the gear progression and running the high-end raids, but this week I've been hunting down an old-world item set on my mage - running weak dungeons solo hunting for a set of gear that's entirely cosmetic. People have asked me why... I told them "because it's FUN." Then they laughed!
Lmao that brings me back... I havent played Wow for about a year but I fondly remember running the old SM dungeons repeatedly trying for the old mail set from there :P (I had a max lvl warrior). Or putting on full tank gear, with a damage shield, and just running through random old dungeons by myself, watching as all my poor enemies slowly killed themselves on my shield :P. But yeah anyways... on topic, I really find this game to be fun partially because you cant just get 1 good deck and win consistently. You will always lose games, and always lose spins, but that just keeps it interesting. If you could just upgrade one set of cards and then always win after that, there wouldnt be much reason to keep playing :P.
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There are decks I like to play and there are also decks that really make me nervous (Rol-Hope for example). In the first case it is playing (fun, I don't care much about rewards then) and in the second case it seems to be (underrewarded) "grinding".
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Me.. i liked "fire" personally .. and the phoenix card bec .. of its rebirth skill .. :D "Cremate and rebirth" :D
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Now this is no rant, but I have to get it out.
I can take that the False Gods "cheat", it's supposed to be hard.
I can take that I can have bad draws, it's random after all.
I can take that the quantum pillars tick in everything but the one quanta I need, it's random after all.
I can take that you can have bad luck 30 straight FG games in a row, statistically improbable but it can happen.
Those things are all frustrating, but that's not what really makes me want to just close the browser and do something else. After wasting thousands of gold on skipping/failing on the hard FG, lucking out on the easy FG and then when you finally get a break and beat a FG and you get ~40 gold and NO card. AAARGH! :'(
This happens!! Sometimes i have to lose like 10 time to start winning. Sometimes i simply lost my pacience and do something else. This game is so random that i randomly don´t play. RANDOMLY does exist?
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I must admit I've never been a fan of RNGs, WoW being the main culprit here. Yes, persistence will most of the time get past the randomness and reward you, but it's always felt like the game designers just couldn't come up with something better. Maybe there IS no better way?
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I must admit I've never been a fan of RNGs, WoW being the main culprit here. Yes, persistence will most of the time get past the randomness and reward you, but it's always felt like the game designers just couldn't come up with something better. Maybe there IS no better way?
Me neither (I dont play WoW though). Games like this doesnt need RNG really. At all. Besides draw of course. I'll admit random can be fun sometimes, but overall, it takes away from the skill. Percentage based shields are especially annoying to me. If I beat someone due to Dusk mantle preventing more damage than it should, I cannot really be happy about it as I won by pure luck. If I lose to Dusk mantle, I'm frustrated. It never ends well :))
And btw, there IS other (better) way.
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As far as WoW random loot tables go, I'm not so sure. It would probably necessitate the removal of such extremely rare world drops as "Staff of Jordan" and "Mindthrust Bracers" - though at high-end raiding, WoW has become partly about accumulating emblems to BUY gear with, and the emblems are guaranteed drops that everyone in the party gets. Half your high-end gear will still be gotten from boss loot tables, and with the hardest raids involving 25-man groups, you're often rolling against 10 other people for something that has a 15% chance to drop per run - on a run that's only doable once per week, and a boss you'll rarely reach unless you have a reliable raiding guild.
At least we'll always have chess, eh?
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As far as WoW random loot tables go, I'm not so sure. It would probably necessitate the removal of such extremely rare world drops as "Staff of Jordan" and "Mindthrust Bracers" - though at high-end raiding, WoW has become partly about accumulating emblems to BUY gear with, and the emblems are guaranteed drops that everyone in the party gets. Half your high-end gear will still be gotten from boss loot tables, and with the hardest raids involving 25-man groups, you're often rolling against 10 other people for something that has a 15% chance to drop per run - on a run that's only doable once per week, and a boss you'll rarely reach unless you have a reliable raiding guild.
At least we'll always have chess, eh?
Lol but when you win that one piece of loot... you feel epic :P.
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Kinda. But I feel more epic when I do something to deserve the loot that doesn't involve a RNG. Like in WoW I'm a fan of soloing incredibly difficult things... one time I was playing warlock in a high-end 5-man dungeon and it was obvious our tank wasn't cutting it. So on the final boss I went Demonology spec with voidwalker, just in case... which turned out to be a great idea. The tank and the other two dps wiped during the first phase, and the healer and I two-manned the boss to death. Took about ten minutes, and the whole time the corpses were cheering us on. Rarely have I felt so awesome in a game!
Some of my favorite stories come from playing tricks on people in pvp. This one time I was leveling my mage, on a quest that called for me to board a pirate ship. I was on my way into the ship when I was attacked by a shaman (not a good matchup for me), and instead of running, I went further into the ship and used Blink - a spell that teleports you 20 yards forward - but as I cast it, I turned to face the stairs back up, blinking PAST him. He gave chase further into the ship and I surfaced in safety.
You got me to ramble, look at that.
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Lol yeah I know what you mean. I remember one time where I was fighting a boss in a raid (I really cant remember which one, but i think it was in Nax) where everyone died with the boss at 60 percent hp except me and 4 healers (I was the tank). We slowly took him down from there to 0 by ourselves :P. I think it may have been the one where the floor explodes and such and you have to move him back and forth, but yeah... that was a great fight. It took us like 25 minutes but yeah... lol. Anyways... enough about WoW. I dont have time to start playing it again... lol.
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I've been collecting some statistics about this.
Grinding AI3 gives me approx 1k + another 500 for selling non-rare cards over 50 games, that's 30 / game on average. Out of my last 100 games vs False gods I won 27 (10 with EM) and got 11 cards (worth 1200). That means an income of approx 17*50+10*120+11*1200-73*30 = 13060, that's 130 / game on average.
I think that's quite comparable.
you earn a lot more money per game against FGs but you can play 5 games against AI3 in the time you defeat a FG.