Fractal

[mogv]

I've been reading alot of great card ideas posted my members of the community. Alot have been shut down just by the idea of it being combined with fractal. So I'll list the pros and cons of fractal. Please post more pros and cons to see if fractal is worth having in the game.

Pros: A whole new deck-building approach, introduces alot of synergy with aether, unique ability of draining quanta which we may see more of,

Cons: Arguably overpowered, shuts down the creation of many cards, breaks the 6 card limit rule,

[sSethia]

I like Fractal as it is, and I don't see how it shuts down the creation of cards. If the reason your card isn't succeeding is because of Fractal, maybe you need to raise the quanta cost a little bit or make it like the Deathstalker, where its ability is only used when it does damage.

[mogv]

I like Fractal as it is, and I don't see how it shuts down the creation of cards. If the reason your card isn't succeeding is because of Fractal, maybe you need to raise the quanta cost a little bit or make it like the Deathstalker, where its ability is only used when it does damage.

The thing that bothers me is if you rase the cost then its balanced with fractal but underpowered without it. If you keep the cost its balanced without it but overpowered with it. Lately all cards have been revolving around the synergy with the univertal fractal.

[Malduk]

There are many "status quo" people on the forum that always like stuff just as they are, so this thread will probably be shut down. I'm gonna go ahead and say that I think Fractal has somewhat negative impact on the whole "metagame" (  ). Sure, game works now, game worked before Fractal. And I doubt it will ever be removed from the game. I just dont like it, and especially dont like the fact that every balancing issue is directly tied to this card.

[Tea is good]

Meh, I liked the game before fractal, seeing as it made a bunch of hard FGs. Don't see anything wrong with  it, except for the fact that is is much easier to use as an FG. The down falls of all fractal decks are the time it takes to set up, and the difficulty of putting together a good hand. These are negated by the fact that FGs start with double health (extra time to get going), double draw (helps get quanta production going faster) and triple marks.

Main Idea: fractal Decks are much easier for FGs rather than people

[guolin]

I like Fractal as it is, and I don't see how it shuts down the creation of cards. If the reason your card isn't succeeding is because of Fractal, maybe you need to raise the quanta cost a little bit or make it like the Deathstalker, where its ability is only used when it does damage.

That's not always the case.

Consider, say, my Artic Hunter idea. Long story short, it packs a huge punch for its cost, but on the downside, it summons a free immaterial creature for the enemy, whcih can weaken it.

With fractal, Artic Hunter is deadly. Like, it can kill so fast the free immaterial creature spawned into the enemy's field is COMPLETELY useless.

Without fractal? I can't nerf Artic Hunter at all without it being too underpowered.

Yes, you can build around Fractal. However, it limits card ideas severely. SoR is the same way. You can't make a really good ability with a high cost because SoR would just throw the high cost aside.

I agree, though, Fractal is a very interesting card. However, I think there should be a new passive ability: Individuated. It renders the creature un-fractal-able.

[Xoned]

This presents a challenge for card creators. A card that the community veiws as ballanced is generally an original idea.
It's quite easy to make your creature have (#-N) HP, where N is the # of creatures with the same name on the feild. Unfractable, new, original.

All in all, let's add to the game, work around it instead of trying to break through it..

[mogv]

There are many "status quo" people on the forum that always like stuff just as they are, so this thread will probably be shut down. I'm gonna go ahead and say that I think Fractal has somewhat negative impact on the whole "metagame" (  ). Sure, game works now, game worked before Fractal. And I doubt it will ever be removed from the game. I just dont like it, and especially dont like the fact that every balancing issue is directly tied to this card.

Thats exactly what I meant. Nowadays every card has to be made sure that it can't be abused with fractal. Fractal opens up alot of synergies with itself, but takes away alot of other small synergies that can be made with the introduction of new cards.

[jmizzle7]

I don't think Fractal hurts the game at all. If Fractal is overpowered, then nearly every good deck would include Fractal or would include a way to deal with Fractal (mass creature control). Fractal decks aren't very fast, with one exception (Fractal Chargers), so there are many ways to deal with the card itself.

About new creature card ideas, I do think that it makes card balance a bit more complex. However, I don't see this as a bad thing. If a creature is inexpensive to the point where it is abusable with Fractal, it is also inexpensive enough to be used in a speed rainbow deck, which almost all consider to be the premier PvP deck.

[mogv]

I don't think Fractal hurts the game at all. If Fractal is overpowered, then nearly every good deck would include Fractal or would include a way to deal with Fractal (mass creature control). Fractal decks aren't very fast, with one exception (Fractal Chargers), so there are many ways to deal with the card itself.

About new creature card ideas, I do think that it makes card balance a bit more complex. However, I don't see this as a bad thing. If a creature is inexpensive to the point where it is abusable with Fractal, it is also inexpensive enough to be used in a speed rainbow deck, which almost all consider to be the premier PvP deck.

Right now I can only think of one example off the top of my head, which is the new card in development "Voodoo Doll". The idea of it with fractal makes it overpowered and I can't really think of a speed rainbow deck having one.

[jmdt]

I don't think Fractal hurts the game at all. If Fractal is overpowered, then nearly every good deck would include Fractal or would include a way to deal with Fractal (mass creature control). Fractal decks aren't very fast, with one exception (Fractal Chargers), so there are many ways to deal with the card itself.

About new creature card ideas, I do think that it makes card balance a bit more complex. However, I don't see this as a bad thing. If a creature is inexpensive to the point where it is abusable with Fractal, it is also inexpensive enough to be used in a speed rainbow deck, which almost all consider to be the premier PvP deck.

Fractal chargers is not that fast actually.  One thing I learned through the course of my ttw study is that fractal decks are slow for the most part.  The fastest fractal deck is frogtal and compared to a fire rush, speed bow, or even shrieker rush its gets blown away.  The next fastest fractal deck is fractal phoenix, and that deck is a whole turn slower than fragtol.

If fractal is OP because of its overwhelming speed, then cremeation, supernova, and graboid are borderline broken as they all can make faster decks.  Any time I look at hard statistics, I just don't see a problem with fractal.  There are multiple cards to deal with deal with fractal or its effects.  If fractal were a huge problem, everyone could play RoF, Pandemonium, thunderstorm and other mass CC spells as counters.  Fractal is powerful, but there are counters there If one is too worried about it.

I think people take the 'abusable by fractal' way too far with card creation/balancing.  I've learned that people around here are mainly scared of new things and ideas.  I've seen people claim cards that are similar to current ones, but slightly weaker overall, are broken overall.  I tried to explain based on math that even with fractal, it was weaker than what was currently in the game, but everone still chanted OP.  I've learned that people a just resistant to change around here. 

[Amilir]

I don't think Fractal hurts the game at all. If Fractal is overpowered, then nearly every good deck would include Fractal or would include a way to deal with Fractal (mass creature control). Fractal decks aren't very fast, with one exception (Fractal Chargers), so there are many ways to deal with the card itself.

About new creature card ideas, I do think that it makes card balance a bit more complex. However, I don't see this as a bad thing. If a creature is inexpensive to the point where it is abusable with Fractal, it is also inexpensive enough to be used in a speed rainbow deck, which almost all consider to be the premier PvP deck.

Why is there ALWAYS this assumption that if a card does not totally break the game it can't be OP?  In any case fractal IS one of the most used cards in the game.

Now is fractal OP?  Maybe not.  It changes the game very significantly though, so it's always going to be debated.