Continous AI improvement...

[leecha]

... or when is it time to stop?

Before you start reading the bigger text I'd like to add a few points:

1. English is not my main language. So there will be most likely some mistakes in this thread.

2. I am talking about FG (and a little about AI5), because they have an advantage over player, which we are currently compensating by "better" playing and/or our decks. The rest of the AI (especially T50 since it could serve as PVP training) should get the best AI possible.

3. This is not a whine threads because FGs are too hard for me. It is a thread that talks about things that MIGHT happen in the future of the game, which makes some of the things stated speculations.

At the current state of the game every patch brings improvement to the AI, which is for the current AI a nice thing, because it has some "features", which makes them easier than a rational human being with the same cards. That's why some of them have given greater power. But with great power comes great responsibility! The very good FG grinders offer a 50%+ win rate against FGs. Long long time ago there was a/some FG grinder/s which offered a 70% win rate, which I sadly enough never experienced and the win percentage is already decreasing.

50-60% seems pretty fine for the reward and the time consumed in winning a FG match with one of the common grinders. But with every increase in AI knowledge the win rate is lowered (It only takes one out of a hundred wins which turned into a loss because of a change to decrease the win rate by 1%). And therefor the question appears:

When is the wanted winning percentage reached? Or do we want to get to a point in the future where a FG plays like a human with increased power?

Imagine playing some god, who has Miracle with Rol/Hope. The common way to defeat this god now is Fractaling a high attack creature and surprising him. If a FG could "remember" that you played a Fractal, look into his database which is the strongest creature of the Elemets you are using, calculate the amount of Quantum you have concerning playable creatures and would use Miracle preemptively the match would be considerable harder. And that is only one example.

When I play FGs i know some of their target priority for permanents and creatures and I can use that to overcome the disadvantage the god provides for me with his increased power. If some of this would be more dynamic a lot of the gods would be considerable harder for me.

I love challenges, but when the best FG grinders would offer only a ~30% (or even less win rate) it would come to a point where the risk isn't worth the reward. That's why i am asking the question.

[kitty45]

So you are saying if the AI remembers certen   decks it will  be harder to kill then

[leecha]

No, I am saying that if the AI gets better priorities concerning PC/CC/PU or would remember the cards you use in the match against him it would be considerable harder.

[EvaRia]

It's more or less time to stop when the AI stops being an absolute idiot.

I can assure you that there won't be anything done to the AI do make it so good that it will be just as good as playing as a player.

The important thing is that it knows when something is really, really, stupid or pointless.

I believe we are only going to improve the AI until it stops making stupid mistakes that enough with half a brain wouldn't make.

[leecha]

The small changes can be pretty devastating. It often happens that I win in the turn before the FG would beat me. If he would have made one better decision the game would be over at that point.

Concerning the AI being as good as real players: That was a exaggeration to show the "worst case" scenario. The little improvements are the ones, which make some FGs harder and harder.

[Sir Valimont]

The important thing to remember is that the compensation for stupidity is totally unfair advantages that FGs have (deckbuilding restrictions waived, double draw, triple mark). Once the AI gets smarter, those unfair advantages become more unfair. So the central message of the OP -- which is that things should reach a fair balance -- is correct.

Ideally, the AI would be as smart as a brilliant player. That way the FGs could play by the normal rules and the point of fighting them would be to test your skills as a player. Now, it's a test of whether or not you can build a specific counter to a specific deck. Which means it would be impossible to win if they were not idiots.

[Tea is good]

anyone read the times article on the 2045: the year we make a machine smarter than the entire human race combined?

EDIT: I didn't, but I thought I'd bring it up. I should prolly go do that right now...

[Raptor6789]

while they are AI's, you cant expect them to be as intelligent as a human. we are, after all, only in the year 2011. sure, seeing an AI as good as a human would be fun, but there is pvp for that. i think that the AI's SHOULD have some weaknesses.

edit: AI's that flame and swear at you? no thanks.