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Silkenfist

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg26875#msg26875
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2010, 02:49:06 pm »
I don't think this is going to lead anywhere... but let's continue:

Hehe ... just the way you put things in this thread I guess.
E.g., categorizing the fgs by their problem-solving strategies and then associating females with "versatility" and "evolution" does appear to be a bit ... feministic.
 
Maybe it's just my famous male intuition though. ;-)
1) I'm not a feminist, I'm psychologist by trade and an evolutionary biologist by hobby.
2) Your famous male intuition is incorrect, though  :P

Quote
I would say that you are way too much onto that "reproduction" scheme, which might not be all that important here.
It is not? All sex (and gender) differences stem from the complimentary differences of the sexes in the reproductional cycle. If we categorize fantastical entities as "male" or "female", this is a much better point to start than some arbritary Allan/Barbara Pease-style dialogues.

Offline Jangoo

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg26883#msg26883
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2010, 03:26:02 pm »
So that's how you wanna play this? Allright girl ... you got it.

opening his magic bag of infinite wisenheimery

1) I'm not a feminist, I'm psychologist by trade and an evolutionary biologist by hobby.
2) Your famous male intuition is incorrect, though  :P
Damn so close ... something like that was actually my secret second guess.
Sorry about the intuition thing though ... I forgot to put "male intuition" in quotation-marks so as to signify clearly that it is meant as a joke.


Self-explanatory*:

... this eventually becoming a "who's shafting who?" thread. I don't really want to go down that road...

Gender is only applied to beings which procreate.
And they [the FGs] can have a gender (since gender is a social construct and does not require a biological distinction from the other gender).


It is not? All sex (and gender) differences stem from the complimentary differences of the sexes in the reproductional cycle. If we categorize fantastical entities as "male" or "female", this is a much better point to start than some arbritary Allan/Barbara Pease-style dialogues.
As a cultural anthropologist by trade *cough I do find an "Allan/Barbara Pease-style dialogue" - as you put it - the much better place to start.
Some biologist viewpoint is just pointless for fantastical deities, especially since Gender is highly a product of social interaction and references to clichees, probably even more so in the world of fantasy. (cultural anthropologist *cough *cough)

Going down the "who is shafting whom"- road would also be a fun choice in my opinion.

closing his magic bag of infinite wisenheimery

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*by which I mean: self-contradictory

Silkenfist

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg26888#msg26888
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2010, 03:47:19 pm »
So that's how you wanna play this? Allright girl ... you got it.
Uh... I told you I was male, didn't I? Is there a pun I missed?


Quote
As a cultural anthropologist by trade *cough I do find an "Allan/Barbara Pease-style dialogue" - as you put it - the much better place to start.
Some biologist viewpoint is just pointless for fantastical deities, especially since Gender is highly a product of social interaction and references to clichees, probably even more so in the world of fantasy. (cultural anthropologist *cough *cough)
Isn't this actually supporting the biologist viewpoint? An analysis of gender differences as a result of biological differences independent of the species might come closer to the truth than an analysis of gender based on anthropological considerations that are valid only for Humans.


But let's turn the tables: From the anthropological point of view - what are the genders of the gods?

Offline Jangoo

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg26906#msg26906
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2010, 04:31:57 pm »
Uh... I told you I was male, didn't I? Is there a pun I missed?
Yes indeed.

Isn't this actually supporting the biologist viewpoint? An analysis of gender differences as a result of biological differences independent of the species might come closer to the truth than an analysis of gender based on anthropological considerations that are valid only for Humans.

But let's turn the tables: From the anthropological point of view - what are the genders of the gods?
Ok then ... Sometimes I am happy to be from Wisenheim. It enables me to actually enjoy this.  ;D

From an anthropological standpoint, the mere existence of deities is manmade, by which I mean that at least the vision and way of portraying them and their doings in the world will be interpreted in the context of the human experience. As you pointed out yourself earlier, many deities in the history of mankind actually have a sex (and some of them even have sex!). Considering deities, or at least the part of them that is perceiveable by humans, as manmade = a mere interpretation of man, entirely takes them into the realm of man's ideals thus validating anthropological analysis. In contrast, a biological analysis is mostly invalid because deities for the most part are not biological. They are - in the best sense of the word - "supernatural".
Of course, as a human yourself, you could insist on the biological dimension of deities and your vision of it. It's just not really common and you would probably end up on the hit-list of "anti-constitutional-cults" of the federal republic of germany.
Either way, like the classic stories of ancient greece or the bible, I picture the FGs behavior to revolve around human manners of conduct ... manners of conduct that have taken the act of reproduction far beyond some biological "procreationist act". The notion of "gender" is thus indeed detached from gender as a biological sex.

The above dialogue between Paradox and the Elements-player - and I am saying this in all humbleness - is hence truly worthy of finding it's way into "Homer's odyssey of Elements" and not just some soapy dialogue. (lol, sorry gotta lol myself here) 
It represents an attempt to contextualize a FGs behavior by embedding it in a typical human every-day situation and then to analyse which gender this particular FG might embody. The above situation clearly shows that Paradox is of female gender whereas a diffrent model-context might throw up some different conclusion. As of now, if you play a match against Paradox and find yourself sexually attracted to her (?) while being a male yourself, you are likely to be straight. If you experience the same attraction while being a female yourself you are probably a lesbian. If you contempt the last two sentences however, you are most likely a feminist (lesbian).

Similarly, I would draw the anthropological (*cough) conclusion that Elidnis is female.
Her ways of protecting her assets, slowly growing her potential and mixing in a subtle note of poison while staying afloat through a notion of collective healing would indicate this.

A model-situation to strengthen evidence on this, could be the following, where we find Elidnis at work:

Boss(distracted): Elidnis, I need you to run a hundred copies of this file and send them over to the archives.
Elidnis(smiling): Yes Boss, right on it. Can I get you anything else?
Boss: Yeah sure, a cup of coffee please.
[Elidnis wanders off to get the coffee. On her way back to the bosses office she swings by her desk and slips a small dose of poison into the coffee, just enough to make him feel very dizzy and call in sick the next couple days.]
Elidnis(smiling at the Boss seductively): Here you go.
Boss(a bit confused by her smile): Thanks darling.
 

Silkenfist

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg26919#msg26919
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2010, 05:06:31 pm »
OK, I see the problem: You are trying to conceptualize the False Gods as manmade and find analogies between human behavior and strategies of the Gods. I can't do the same, unfortunately, since I try to conceptualize them as natural beings, detached from any human creator.

XxDevilxX

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg27025#msg27025
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2010, 09:12:31 pm »
i dunno i always though of miracle as a guy that was just a dick lol...elidnis i think of as a girl, ferox as some jungle boy, DM, rainbow, seism, DG areall jacked dudes, FFQ a girl along with destiny :D

Offline tyranim

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg27163#msg27163
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2010, 01:40:32 am »
question: does it matter? as long you use your pronouns correctly, it shouldnt. and even then, it has very small importance
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Daxx

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg27211#msg27211
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2010, 04:02:22 am »
And they can have a gender (since gender is a social construct and does not require a biological distinction from the other gender).
Explain yourself. How is it a social construct? When does it have no biological distinction?
I'm a non-specialist so I know I don't have as informed a perspective (feel free to explain to me if I'm wrong) but aren't you ignoring the difference between sex and gender? We know that a person's sexual organs don't necessarily define their gender, so why insist on biological distinctions in assigning pronouns?

Not that I'm suggesting that assigning pronouns to the FGs is really an important issue in any way. I don't really care, I just wanted to ask a question.

ivalmian

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg27217#msg27217
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2010, 05:38:04 am »
I just arranged them according to their Name. whichever one sounded more male or more female O.o
gemini should be male imho..

toast54

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg27409#msg27409
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2010, 11:57:43 pm »
Gem. is a boy.

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg27414#msg27414
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2010, 12:02:28 am »
I've seen characters with the name Gemini portrayed as females for I don't even know how long, so I just naturally put Gemini under the female category because it felt more right.
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icybraker

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Re: False God's Genders? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3109.msg27427#msg27427
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2010, 12:39:56 am »
Gemini are two conjoined twins, one female and one male? :)

 

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