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Offline theelkspeaksTopic starter

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theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1180989#msg1180989
« on: March 03, 2015, 03:31:32 am »
After about a year of unupped shardless PVP, I decided it would be fun to make a tier list.  I've referred to decks as belonging to different tiers often enough that I figured this might be useful.  Feel free to disagree or point out any decks I've missed.  Every deck on the list is a deck I've either played in competitive play, had played against me in competitive play, or seen discussed by others in chat/forum.  Without further ado:

theelkspeaks's unupped PVP tierlist

Brief explanation: I'm here trying to make a tier list for unupped PVP.  I'm dividing decks into seven broad tiers - S, A, B, C, D, E, and F.  I'm presuming shardless play for now, though I might add a separate tierlist for sharded play if the reception is high.

Counterpicking is very valuable and can win matches even with a lower tier deck against a higher tier deck.  Choosing decks from the S/A/B tier decks in various mixes is generally good and reasonable play, with S and A decks occupying a higher percentage of your play but mixing in B decks still being a viable choice even without mindgating.  C decks are generally good picks only if you expect a favorable matchup.  Decks rated D-F are only reasonable if there are restrictions in play, such as a tournament or event rule. 

Each "archetype" of deck (such as Grabbow, Light Firestall, Disquake, and so on) will only be listed once.  Various mods of a given deck may be appropriate for a given situation.  Mods that range far from the original deck as to become an entirely new deck might get their own mention, such as the Earthquake containing mod of Immorush sometimes called Immoquake.

Many many many of these decks can be "teched" with one or two cards to improve particular matchups, such as adding AoE if you expect a fractal based deck, or adding a useful shield or weapon.

Decks are in a very estimated order within each tier, but order within a tier is mostly "too close to call".

S tier - the devastating decks that are the backbone of competitive play: Disquake Bow, Phoenixbolt Control, Light Firestall, THE DECK, Grabbow

A tier - decks that have a drawback that can make them less reliable, but still very strong decks: Catatitans, Adrenastaves, It's A Trap, Immorush, Dream Catcher, AIR THE DECK, Monotime, Ghostmare, Psiontal, FW Vamp Daggers Bow, Vader Saders, No Flaming, Phoenixbolt Rush, AM Monoentropy, Pdialsbow, RT Shriekerquake, Toadfish Bacteria, Dragonbow, Bonebolt, Adrenavamps

B tier - decks that have good matchups and bad matchups, are often feast or famine decks:  Fleshwings, Lobo Purify Trap, Bonecats, Frozen Catatians, Ragedolls, Pandebonium, Dry Nymphs, FFQ Hope, Shrieker Rush, Deja Hope, Death Smallbow, Creation of Life, BB Charge, Adrenafrogs, UG Dials, Siphonary, RT NT splash duo, Devtal, BB NT duo

C tier - use only with a good reason: Adrenascorps, Scarabtal, Shine Bright Like a Diamond, Mitoscarabs, Flying OE, Firecell, PVP Limitless Speed, Voodoo Parasite, Soul Dragon, Dissipation Dragons, Dragonflytal, Gnometal, Fractix, Dazzling Dolls, THE MONO, Life Firestall, Devquake, Growth Bow, Rustler Rush, Blessed Otys, Deflag NT splash, Drake Dim

D tier - use these decks if you either are predicting a very very hard counter or restrictions eliminate the top decks: Quinted NT UG Bow, The Dark Art, BB Catamagio, Accelerated Voodoo, BB Adrenafrogs, Dims THE DECK, Accelerated Armagios, Devtosis, BB Gravy

E tier - below the bar decks even if restrictions are in play, most likely: Fractal Red Nymphs, Lycantosis, Monolight Rush, Devgoyle, Otymono, Fractal Vu, Adrenatrice

F tier - just why would you ever play this?: PU Permission, Grabby SS, Heal/Reflect/Dim Trio Deckout
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Offline Espithel

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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1180994#msg1180994
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2015, 04:37:16 am »
Where's monoaether?

Edit: Thank you.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 04:40:12 am by Frozengaia »

Offline theelkspeaksTopic starter

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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1180995#msg1180995
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2015, 04:38:36 am »
Where's monoaether?

Psiontal is mid A, Dragons + Dims is low C.
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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1180996#msg1180996
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2015, 04:42:05 am »
What about just general Pharaoh decks? It includes Scarabtal, but I don't see any Pharaoh deck. Other than that, great job in making this!
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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1180999#msg1180999
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2015, 05:20:16 am »
Disagreement:
Various healing decks are at least a tier above where they should be.  Adrenastaves is A-tier, but adrenavamps/vadersader/FW vampdag bow are B-tier or below. I'd rate Monodeath rush as A-tier, same with Grabquake(graboid rush w/EQ and shriekers).  Other notable missing decks include DBH and Immortal.  Plain NT rush is significantly better than any of the watered-down(ha!) alternatives.  Not sure about AM monoentro - how many AMs are we talking?  A few splashed into an aggro deck or a full on control deck? 

Clarification:
Difference between Pheonixbolt control and pheonixbolt rush?
Dream Catcher?
No Flaming?
Air the deck?
Lobo Purify Trap?

Notes:
Generally, for a deck to be S- or even A-tier, it has to have a strong linear gameplan that's resilient to at least one form of disruption.  If you're looking to create the Next Big Deck in BL, you have to either hit some undiscovered weak spot in the metagame or use new cards to create that strong linear gameplan(most linear strategies with current cards have been discovered, and fringe strategies are usually much more vulnerable to disruption).
Also, despite my various disagreements, this list isn't bad.  +Rep for putting in the effort to post it.

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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1181003#msg1181003
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 05:35:38 am »
Disagreement:
Various healing decks are at least a tier above where they should be.  Adrenastaves is A-tier, but adrenavamps/vadersader/FW vampdag bow are B-tier or below. I'd rate Monodeath rush as A-tier, same with Grabquake(graboid rush w/EQ and shriekers).  Other notable missing decks include DBH and Immortal.  Plain NT rush is significantly better than any of the watered-down(ha!) alternatives.  Not sure about AM monoentro - how many AMs are we talking?  A few splashed into an aggro deck or a full on control deck? 

Immortal is on there as 'Shine Bright Like A Diamond', which I believe is the name used by War 6's team Light.

Also, disagreed, 24/6 NT rush is too easy to counter and too easy to faildraw.
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Offline theelkspeaksTopic starter

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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1181004#msg1181004
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 05:37:55 am »
Disagreement:
Various healing decks are at least a tier above where they should be.  Adrenastaves is A-tier, but adrenavamps/vadersader/FW vampdag bow are B-tier or below. I'd rate Monodeath rush as A-tier, same with Grabquake(graboid rush w/EQ and shriekers).I call that Shriekerquake, but yeah it's A-tier.  Other notable missing decks include DBH Dream Catcher and Immortal If you mean the Earth/Light stall, I use mesaprotector's name "Shine Bright Like A Diamond".  Plain NT rushI used the name "Toadfish Bacteria" for a plain NT Rush with Toadfish, forget where I saw that name for it, and it does rank above the other NTs. is significantly better than any of the watered-down(ha!) alternatives.  Not sure about AM monoentro - how many AMs are we talking?Usually 3-4 in a mostly aggro deck  A few splashed into an aggro deck or a full on control deck? 

Clarification:
Difference between Pheonixbolt control and pheonixbolt rush?The control version usually packs several rage pots and sometimes RoF, where the rush version usually just goes for straight faren/bolt/phoenix with quanta to boost the faren and bolts
Dream Catcher?DBH Grabbow with Forest Spirits, name taken from one of the decklists I plundered for my own deck list.
No Flaming?Crimson Dragon based Faren/Bolt Rush
Air the deck?A mod of THE DECK using UGs as a wincon, Air mark, and OEs for some of the control
Lobo Purify Trap?a version of It's A Trap that packs more CC including flayers and RT, and also purify to deal with poison.  It's anti-momentum tech to some extent, but is different enough that I thought it deserved a mention.

Notes:
Generally, for a deck to be S- or even A-tier, it has to have a strong linear gameplan that's resilient to at least one form of disruption.  If you're looking to create the Next Big Deck in BL, you have to either hit some undiscovered weak spot in the metagame or use new cards to create that strong linear gameplan(most linear strategies with current cards have been discovered, and fringe strategies are usually much more vulnerable to disruption).
Also, despite my various disagreements, this list isn't bad.  +Rep for putting in the effort to post it.

Responded more or less point-by-point in bold within a quote of your post.
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Offline theelkspeaksTopic starter

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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1181005#msg1181005
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 05:39:05 am »
Disagreement:
Various healing decks are at least a tier above where they should be.  Adrenastaves is A-tier, but adrenavamps/vadersader/FW vampdag bow are B-tier or below. I'd rate Monodeath rush as A-tier, same with Grabquake(graboid rush w/EQ and shriekers).  Other notable missing decks include DBH and Immortal.  Plain NT rush is significantly better than any of the watered-down(ha!) alternatives.  Not sure about AM monoentro - how many AMs are we talking?  A few splashed into an aggro deck or a full on control deck? 

Immortal is on there as 'Shine Bright Like A Diamond', which I believe is the name used by War 6's team Light.

Also, disagreed, 24/6 NT rush is too easy to counter and too easy to faildraw.

When he says plain, I think he means mono with 6 Toadfish ("Toadfish Bacteria")
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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1181007#msg1181007
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 06:07:22 am »
You're right, 24/6 is moderately easy to faildraw.  I usually go 22/8 with 2 NQs, but I do prefer the straight version over toadfish.  I also prefer the aggro monofire.  These are, however, preferences and I don't expect the list to change as a result, just noting them so that readers can see a differing opinion.

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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1181022#msg1181022
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 10:15:39 am »
I really like the effort put in here, great job!

But imo there should at least be decklists for all the decks listed, maybe more detail in case of S and A tiers. I'm up for helping out with that if you want.
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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1181023#msg1181023
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 10:19:08 am »
But imo there should at least be decklists for all the decks listed, maybe more detail in case of S and A tiers. I'm up for helping out with that if you want.

This, and same.
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Re: theelkspeaks's Unupped PVP Tier List (Updated Mar 2, 2015) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57675.msg1191566#msg1191566
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2015, 08:18:33 am »
Since I won't be joining BL this year and 1/2016, I wanted to act as a medium to take some stats and assess what really works in the BL metagame. So if anyone is willing, they can send me their stats for BL (this season or last).

Didn't know if I should start a new thread, so posted here.


Don't send me stuff
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 10:30:57 am by Zawadx »
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