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Offline nolf

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170226#msg1170226
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2014, 08:35:16 am »
I loved the opening post, venting your frustration with humor. And don't believe anybody who claims it gets better in the higher leagues, if anything, the variation of decks you face decreases. I'll shamelessly link to the thread I started about this which includes some ideas of how arena play could be improved.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/the-arena/the-sorry-state-of-the-arena/

Offline allembrande jacksonTopic starter

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170778#msg1170778
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2014, 12:17:27 am »
You are right!  it doesn't get better.

The only way to improve is to grind ... [insert bawdy joke]

Another thing that bothers me is that the goal of the game is not to make a fun or creative deck: if the arena is where you obtain the most rares, then you must focus on the arena - the arena punishes unpredictable decks - I have had so many successful runs ruined by a bad deal on game five.  You can only win if you make a predictable deck; therefore, the permutations on the limited supply of cards is itself limited.

What is the arena rewarded based on matches (a series of three games vs a specific deck, two wins takes the match), rather than uninterrupted strings of wins.
I know uninterrupted strings of wins are possible, but only with grinders.  I don't like grinding (does anyone?)

Lets innovate!!!
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Offline allembrande jacksonTopic starter

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170789#msg1170789
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2014, 12:43:01 am »
Another Winner!

The "Why Bother Leaving Bed" Award: Given for the best use of cut and paste

X_Beta_X

For putting 6 immortals, 6 Psions, 6 Phase Shields, and a bunch of Aether Pillars into a deck and calling it ... a deck. 

We have PvAI for a reason, but this guy thought ... hey, people probably want to play against really boring decks in the arena, I can make that happen with minimal effort (and no creativity).

Good job X_Beta_X, for your contributions to society!
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Offline Zawadx

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170795#msg1170795
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2014, 02:07:47 am »
Another Winner!

The "Why Bother Leaving Bed" Award: Given for the best use of cut and paste

X_Beta_X

For putting 6 immortals, 6 Psions, 6 Phase Shields, and a bunch of Aether Pillars into a deck and calling it ... a deck. 

We have PvAI for a reason, but this guy thought ... hey, people probably want to play against really boring decks in the arena, I can make that happen with minimal effort (and no creativity).

Good job X_Beta_X, for your contributions to society!

If this refers to an actual player, please stop :| Personally attacking another player like that is against the rules.
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Offline flyingcat

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170801#msg1170801
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2014, 04:03:31 am »
If you wanna beat mono aether, pack some PC. If you want to troll mono aether, bring SoW Reflect. Arena AI has been brought up several times, and is a big problem. The AI can play mono aether. It can't play some weird reverse fractal thing.
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Offline bossitron

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170812#msg1170812
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2014, 07:16:12 am »
you can be creative when you get into pvp1 and 2.

in PvP you can really make whatever you want.

you don't see much variety in the arena because the AI can actually play monoaether. it can't play some weird mutation chaos power antimatter thing. it simply can't do OTKs.


« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 07:18:23 am by bossitron »
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Offline Faro

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170819#msg1170819
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2014, 08:31:02 am »
You are right!  it doesn't get better.

The only way to improve is to grind ... [insert bawdy joke]

Another thing that bothers me is that the goal of the game is not to make a fun or creative deck: if the arena is where you obtain the most rares, then you must focus on the arena - the arena punishes unpredictable decks - I have had so many successful runs ruined by a bad deal on game five.  You can only win if you make a predictable deck; therefore, the permutations on the limited supply of cards is itself limited.

What is the arena rewarded based on matches (a series of three games vs a specific deck, two wins takes the match), rather than uninterrupted strings of wins.
I know uninterrupted strings of wins are possible, but only with grinders.  I don't like grinding (does anyone?)

Lets innovate!!!

so you want to win without grind, easy and fast.... what a challenge ! ?_?

Offline allembrande jacksonTopic starter

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170862#msg1170862
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2014, 11:33:32 pm »
PvP is out of order, and I do not have enough upgraded cards to last more than five rounds in PvP2

... and really, what's wrong with drawing public attention to another's behavior?  I can drop the sarcasm and simply list players who load waste-of-time decks into the system.  This would be a simple report of facts.  Zanz incorporated a feedback system where I can say "This deck is uninspired and boring"; why can't I say this here?

Ideally, I'd send a private message to the player, but you can't in this system, as there is no elements mailbox.

The game needs work to run properly; we cannot expect Zanz to do all the work; players who work against the system need to be made aware that their actions are having a negative impact; "referring to an actual player" is the only way to reach out (in the hopes that they read the forums).

Can you think of a better way to inform people that they are contributing to the breakage of an otherwise lovely resource?  Look up 'the tragedy of the commons' and see where that leads when bad behavior goes unchecked.

Oh, and Faro - I don't want to win, I want to play.  I don't mind playing unupgraded decks, but I really, REALLY want to try a build with a trident, and the only way to get one is to grind and then play the roller-lottery, so I do object to the mind-numbing combination of extended grind-neccesity AND lame deck-construction (are you saying you don't?).  ANd grinding isn't challenging, it's time consuming.  Matches would raise the challenge and lower the grind simultaneously.
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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170870#msg1170870
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2014, 12:45:01 am »
... and really, what's wrong with drawing public attention to another's behavior?  I can drop the sarcasm and simply list players who load waste-of-time decks into the system.  This would be a simple report of facts.  Zanz incorporated a feedback system where I can say "This deck is uninspired and boring"; why can't I say this here?

Because the feedback system doesn't single people out, and you did. It's impolite to that person, even if they never do see this - which chances are, they won't.

The game needs work to run properly; we cannot expect Zanz to do all the work; players who work against the system need to be made aware that their actions are having a negative impact; "referring to an actual player" is the only way to reach out (in the hopes that they read the forums).

Can you think of a better way to inform people that they are contributing to the breakage of an otherwise lovely resource?  Look up 'the tragedy of the commons' and see where that leads when bad behavior goes unchecked.

The system isn't broken - it works exactly as it was meant to. It provides a means to get rares that is still accessible to players with limited experience, but more challenging than the previous system, it provides an alternate method of getting electrum, and it provides a large variety of decks compared to any other PvE.

Yes, there are some decks that are very common. These are either because they're commonly recommended newbie decks, such as mono-aether and mono-darkness, that might be the only real deck newer players have, or they could be decks designed for the AI to play properly, to increase electrum gain, or they could have had limited time to build an arena deck and they just put up the easiest deck they could make. However, these are not all people, and there's still a wide variety of decks in all leagues at all times. Any negative impact they have is very minor.
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Offline eaglgenes101

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1170881#msg1170881
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2014, 02:05:23 am »
Zanz needs to port the OpenETG AI for 1.4.1. All of us are sick of stupid AI, as much as we like to laugh at it.
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Offline allembrande jacksonTopic starter

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Re: Undefeatable long term strategy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56721.msg1171000#msg1171000
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2014, 10:13:05 pm »
My bad.  I will no longer make my feedback specific.

Something that might improve the game is fixing the thing in the system where stuff happens to people.  That might help.

I'll just keep grinding, hoping that people start acting better all on their own; that IS what you two are saying, right?  Don't comment on so-and-so's behaviour, just hope it fixes itself.  Also, the game isn't broken, the designer intended people to make boring choices (as though it was a one-player-game) and since most of us had to deal with this grinding, then that's the way it should always be.  I'll just keep my chin up and stop complaining.  It would probably ruin things if there was a better rewards system for PvP, thus making it unnecessary to grind our lives away...

Besides, I'm not really complaining, am I ... I am admiring certain people for using my "Undefeatable long term strategy".

Good job everyone who uses my strategy to its fullest.  Keep up the boring decks: as your supporters have more stars than I, I am inclined to shut my mouth ;)
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