Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => General Discussion => Topic started by: FrozenFlame on January 17, 2010, 10:22:14 pm
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Hey everyone!
I and a friend (Jonybat) have been on a project - develop a website able to store all games against False Gods and automatically generate statistics.
Here's the address: http://elementsstatistics.gotdns.com/ (http://elementsstatistics.gotdns.com/)
and here's a demo on calculated statistics based on some battles inserted with a deck created: statistics (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=2757956304)
To avoid any future issues i strongly recommend, on registration, to insert a different password from Elements (game or forum).
The project is not complete, more features will be added,
Please try it out and comment in here!
I would also enjoy some suggestions and/or bug reports please :)
For that you can contact me at Elements.Statistics[at]gmail[dot]com
~FrozenFlame & Jonybat
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Suggestions made:
- short_description (by who)
-Bad Draws -> Deck Outs (ScaredGirl) (done)
-statistic: (average) cards left in deck (ScaredGirl) (done)
-option: cancel battles (Cisco) (done)
-add other levels than FGs (Cisco) (in consideration. Long term, probably)
-add overall row to statistics (PuppyChow) (done)
-sortable statistics (icybraker) (done)
For the suggestions not done yet, they will take some time implementing, but they're being taken into consideration.
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From today (January 28th, 2010) on, accessing Elements Statistics while not logged in (or registered) will still let you use most of the features. However, changing anything while on that "logged in but not logged in" status will be shared with anyone else using that same "status". Think as if you would be logged in as 'guest', and that everyone knows the password of 'guest'.
This is to show the main content to newcomers so more people might want to join us:)
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I'd love to register, but all I ever get is "username and password must both contain at least 5 characters", even if I type the whole alphabet for both of them.
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hum :s
Did you add any special character to any of the fields?
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That's pretty interesting, although the first time I saw your website, the word Phishing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing) came into my mind. :)
About the statistics.. I recommend you get rid of that "Bad Draw" as it is highly subjective and shouldn't have a place in cold-facts statistics like this one.
Good luck in your endeavor.
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Signed up will test it later on
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@ ScaredGirl
I thought it could be interesting to figure out which deck is in fact more effective.
as a forced example:
100 battles against same god with 2 different decks. you get 90 bad draws with one, and 10 wins. and you get 10 bad draws with the other, and 20 wins (so, 70 losses). The first one could possibly be more effective.
We're trying to work on the "version-on-regist" bug and i'd like to figure out why couldn't Essence sign up,
i'll keep in touch in here
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I agree with SG here. Bad draw is not a statistik. I´ts simply a bad deck design imo.
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@ ScaredGirl
I thought it could be interesting to figure out which deck is in fact more effective.
as a forced example:
100 battles against same god with 2 different decks. you get 90 bad draws with one, and 10 wins. and you get 10 bad draws with the other, and 20 wins (so, 70 losses). The first one could possibly be more effective.
Yeah, but my point is that what is a "bad draw"?
It's a highly subjective term that people can interpret in different ways, therefore it sucks for statistics.
You guys should add:
cards left in the deck after a win (helps to determine whether your deck is too big or not)
decked-out (helps to determine how often you lose by decking out so you can maybe take more cards if needed)
Finding the optimal deck size is one of the most important things deck building.
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Yes i reckon you guys are right on that.
Replacing Bad Draws by Decking out should be quite easy.
The other suggestions made by SG will take more time,
but all of them were noted down and will be taken into consideration,
Thanks :)
ps.: "no-version-on-register" bug fixed.
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hum :s
Did you add any special character to any of the fields?
Nope, just lowercase letters and numbers. Could the problem be the Opera browser?
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I have added more descriptive error messages on an attempt to login or register, and a slight improvement.
About the Opera browser it didn't occur to me. I don't think so since it was a server validation error, not a client sided one, i will check into that tomorrow though.
However please test it again and you'll know if it's the username or the password, we might understand where the problem is.
In the meantime, you can login with the account whose username is "guest" and password is "guest" to check functionalities:)
I'm sorry for any inconvenience
~off for the night. have fun :)
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Interesting...
I have an issue when creating an account:
'You have no permission to be here' (or something along those lines, it is late where i am, apologies!)
Tried with username crazydiamond / abc123test. Using Chrome browser.
So i just logged in with guest/guest and it does look nice, keep working on it :D...
Edit: Maybe if in the long run you could use the source-code for the game (with Zanzarino's permission of course) to create a simulator. An obvious example that springs to mind would be the http://websim.speedsim.net/ (http://websim.speedsim.net/) - A battle calculator for the popular space strategy game at www.ogame.org (http://www.ogame.org). However that's enough about that.
As I was saying, a sort of stripped down game engine with none of the graphics/etc just simply the AI, the Cards in your chosen deck and then the game mechanics to work it out.
So you would enter your 30 to 60 cards. A bit like the Bazaar/Manage Deck function in the game already, choose your False God Opponent and hit 'Run Simulation' with the option of saying how many times you want it to run the simulation (I guess between 20 and 100). Then it will return results as to Win, Loss, Deck-Out, Bad Draw (maybe you can enter specific criteria to constitute as a bad draw - probably, No Pillars/No Sundials or 1 Pillar/No Sundials)...
This would obviously only be in the very distant future when this sort of application becomes available (the mechanics of a ogame.org battle as I understand it is extremely simple). Whereas, the mechanics of an entire game against a False God where a game could last potentially 60 turns. And ultimately, it would have to be AI vs AI for the simulation and therefore you have to disregard the statistics in some way or another (unless the AI can be improved to near human levels hehehe :)).
Anyways, just don't mind this edit...
It is nice, and just what the Deck-Building side of Elements needed in my oppinion... No longer can someone submit an 'ULTIMATE' (or any other amazing descriptive word) and claim that it has 80% win rate against False Gods when in reality the person has only played 30 games and got lucky :).
Good night.
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k after some testing there is one thing that bothers me and that is after logging in I have to log up again after a short time. At least increase the time you can be loged in. Also if you make a mistake whene adding the stats you cannot change it. That may be an additional function that can be added. Fg are one thing maybe ad the other levels to your prog.
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I have installed and tested Opera and it didn't seem to give me any problems to register a new name.
I still have some tests to do, in the meantime still awaiting for Essence's answer. :s
By the way, my statistics (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=2778822887) since yesterday with ocasional games :P Slightly modified version from PuppyChow's rainbow 8)
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Just read your post Lanidrak and i'm getting the same error.
I'll put my efforts into this one right now since i can test it and catch it, it might fix Essence's, if related.
Thank you very much ! :D
@ Cisco
I also was bothered by the login timeout and i modified it about 10 minutes right before your last post, now the timeout should be 20 minutes since your last refresh to any page.
Please confirm when able :)
Hum, yes i could add the other levels, i'm going to think about it, in long-term i think, since many bugs seem to be present at the moment.
Also, about battles, i plan to add a "reset" button at the very least. But indeed you're right i should add the delete-battle function.
(finally, i could post without the "warning: new replies have been made" message :P)
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yeah Cisco, I noticed that aswell... My demo deck accidentally submitted an Elemental Mastery against Chaos Lord when in reality it lost.
Which brings me on to another point, what is there to stop people signing in to this and submitting any nonsense they want? I know it is early days but I have a suggestion (believe it or not)
Your Username/Password allows you to log in and only see statistics.
With a standard User/Pass you can also 'create' a deck and save it.
Then some way to check if similar decks already exist.
Once a deck is saved you are asked to put a Name/Password on this deck.
It is up to your discretion to reveal the Name/Password of the deck
Otherwise only you can submit statistics from battles using your deck.
This also doesn't stop the problem if people use a deck and then accidentally/intentionally/forgetfully alter it by say 1 or 2 cards, then keep playing, oblivious to their changes while continuing to submit their statistics from fights.
Another brief edit:
Thanks for your time in going out of your way to help us improve Elements.
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@Lanidrak
Only the owner of the "standard" account has access to modify statistics from decks created by that account. check my earlier post for another statistics (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=2778822887) link and you will realise you can't access my deck with guest account.
However, since i just gave away guest's account, everyone has it, and so at that point, nothing stops anyone from submitting nonsence statistics.
The login-password you insert at registration are in fact to get exclusive access to your new decks and statistics.
Also, thanks for your cooperation :) About the ogame-alike idea, i read it, it could be interesting yes, but indeed it's a long term idea. Also, i am not expert in developping websites, this is not my first but actually the first i dispose to public, i'm confident i have quite a good safety when it comes to certain attacks, but who knows what could i miss, so i recognize myself i would not like to take the risk of hosting Elements' source or parts of it in my host for quite a long time. :s
- The issue with google chrome was located and fixed. I will have to look for a better solution but it should work with no problems right as it is. It was not related to Essence's case though sadly, his/her unability to register bothers me :(
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Could you make the "stay logged in" time longer? I'm using it and it's great, but sometimes to submit a stat I have to relog in.
And could you make an "overall" row? To show the overall win percentage and such?
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Could you make the "stay logged in" time longer? I'm using it and it's great, but sometimes to submit a stat I have to relog in.
And could you make an "overall" row? To show the overall win percentage and such?
Thanks for the comment. We're glad you like it ;)
The login time will be increased as requested. About the overall stats, that was one of the first things in the todo list, but then the register and login issues came up and it was halted.
That will be done soon :)
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Yes, we're glad someone is enjoying :D
-Login session now lasts 60 mins after last refresh
Great Lanidrak :D
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Welcome to the forums Jonybat.
@FrozenFlame - yep, the chrome issue is sorted :) i has account now roar.
Time to work out the actual win rate of my Rainbow Deck against FGs as opposed to the purported 75% it has :).
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Next features that will be added will probably be the ability to change password, change deck name
, and cancel battles. We're onto adding those when able.:)
Cancel last battle feature added. In order to be able to use it you have to have inserted a battle during the login session (and not having cancelled your last battle).
You can Only cancel the last battle.
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Very nice. I'm currently using this- total of 48 battles with a 38% win rate. Keep up the great work :)
Personally, I would like to be able to order the FG's in order of winning percentage, or have it automatically order for me. But that's my only complaint so far (besides the fact that it's still pretty empty). But it's just new, and it's looking great.
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Hey Icybraker :)
Umm about it being pretty empty, i agree but you answered yourself:)
We try adding new features, now at the beginning it's not being hard since we started without some of the basic features* but it might get tricky:P
*Like being unable to recover or change a password. Changing password functionality was added today as a side note!
Also, for sorting the statistics, it's a great idea, and we're going to take a look about that. :D
Keep an eye on your control panel, if we're adding that functionality, as for now (didn't think about it too much yet), it seems likely to be able to set sorting preferences in there.
Thanks for your comment,
and have fun playing ;D
~FrozenFlame
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Sorting statistics table feature added!
In statistics (the page where you can add battles at), if you load another deck's statistics, the newly loaded table will not be able to be sorted. This issue is (obviously) known, and we have already located the problem. However, by this time, we have no knowledge to fix it, as we are not too used to Object Oriented Programming*. We could use some javascript expert to help us out here if any is around :P
Anyway, as for now we plan to just keep improving the website and not bother about that bug too much, when the time comes we might study javascript to learn how to use it correctly to fix this bug. (*This is due to the fact we used an already made script to sort tables: Why reinvent the wheel? Credits not taken from true owner :) )
If you want to see any deck's statistics sorted in any non-default order, you can always grab the direct url listed at that same page and use it, you will be able to sort the statistics as you wish there.
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Whoo! I love the new sorting system! Keep up the great work!
It took a while for me to figure out, though. But that's probably because I'm slow :P
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Glad you liked :) I also did. The author did a very nice job indeed. :)
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Deck names can now be up to 30 characters, dots and hyphens are now accepted also. I realised how they could be short heh.
It's different when we make and when we use :P "Hum afterall 20 characters ain't that large..."
No other updates for now. We will soon add a "rename deck" option so don't throw your statistics down the water just to get a nicer name or so :)
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Deck renaming feature will probably be added later today.
Note: Statistics depend on deck and version. This is due to new versions bringing new levels of AI and/or cards, possibly even boosting or nerfing existing cards.
This means that when a new version comes out, (as it might when Nymphs are released), statistics start being saved from zero.
Old statistics will be kept and able to be checked, but it will not be possible to add any statistics to the old version*
When you check any deck's statistics (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=2757956304) you will see the correspondent version on top of the statistics. That's what it is about.
*The alternate option to implement this would leave that for the players to handle :
"Oh a new version is out. Ok then even though this is the exact same deck i'm going to delete it and re-create it, or create a new one, so the statistics won't contain battles from the 2 different versions"
Please let us know your opinion about that, if you would like better the "automated" version or the alternative version, or yet another suggestion you might have :)
Thank you in advance,
~FrozenFlame & Jonybat
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This is a useful tool so I added it under "Resources".
LINK HERE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=pages;sa=5)
I'm using iframe, and in case you are not familiar with the term, it means that instead of opening your website in new window, it opens "inside" of this forum page. All your content on that page will be loaded, just like when a person goes to your site the old fashioned way.
If you guys don't want this, let me know. Although I don't know why you would have a problem with it since it's convenient for everyone and you probably gets you more hits this way.
EDIT: Hmm.. your url won't show up of course, if that's a problem.
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It looks great for both of us! :) URL not showing is not a problem at all.
Thank you ;P
Deck Renaming functionalitty was added. Check 'Decks' menu :)
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Average Cards Left by the end statistics added.
Note that this data will not be required to insert: Leaving the field empty will assume you don't want to keep track on that and insert "0 Cards Left on deck".
If for some reason you want to set the average cards left on deck to a specific value that you roughly estimate, pm me with your nickname, name of deck, and nr of cards left on deck you wish.
Of course, this will not be precise since no data about that was collected until now.
On a side note, we're also changing game version to 1.18 soon (after adding yet another feature) in Elements Statistics, and as mentioned earlier, that will cause for statistics to be displayed separately, they won't get mixed, so if your table seems suddenly empty its just normal.
You will be able to check old statistics by selecting the version you wish to check at, right near where you choose which deck you want to check out.
Version changed to 1.18.
Number of cards won statistics added (optional, same rules apply here than for cards left on deck).
You should all be inserting battles on a new table already. As mentioned earlier, previous data was not deleted and still is accessible to check it out.
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Seems that we got a jump in users accessing and the hosting service is not acting as expected. It is bit slower than usual and even inaccessible at some times.
We are already searching for a solution, in case this gets worse in the future.
If any of you know any hoster that meet the following specs, we would appreciate:
- PHP
- MySQL with InnoDB engine
- Free with no ads (at least in a first stage)
In the meantime, please be patient.
Thank you
Oh, and thanks Lanidrak ;)
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Replaced Average Cards Won for Cards Won (Total) since it didn't seem to make much sense, we end up not knowing much knowing the "average" (0-3).
Added False God "Paradox"; let me know if more new False Gods are present, i missed that :P
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There's an epic FG called Dark Matter. :D Apparently, he's uber hard to beat thanks to tons of Black Holes that destroy any Rainbow deck. Check with others for confirmation.
Looking good so far, Frozen. http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=2329113030 (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=2329113030) Thanks for the organization level; looking a lot cleaner now.
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Yea Dark Matter was already added to the FG list also as you might have noticed. :)
Hum credits to Jonybat particularly about organization tbh xD
He's less active in the forums but not for the website ;)
Let us know if you have any suggestion be a functionality, organization, whatever :)
Thanks for your support ;p
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In 1 to 2 weeks we plan to start adding the decks details structure to database and website. Our plans at the moment are to keep the following info about each card:
~name
~element - to act as filter when adding new cards. also to estabilish an order when it comes to show deck off
~type - to estabilish an order when it comes to show deck off and limit to max of 6 per deck if not pillar
~upgraded (yes as default)
and to build a deck, you will need to specify:
~mark used
~any quantity from 0 (0 instead of 30 because it will be optional to insert deck details) to 60 cards chosen like:
~~card name - chosen with element filter. "Show me cards of element...aether. i want to add one of them"
~~quantity - max 6 for types different from pillars or towers
We also plan to add some sort of link just like statistics link, for each deck, probably listed at statistics page.
Possibly in same page, depends on how the layout will be.
Comments are welcome! :)
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Nice work Frozen.
I'll start using it more actively after this week. Got exam-hell! :)
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Yea, we get it...i mean, Frozen does :P
Just a brief update...
The Average Cards Left statistics were updated to what it was supposed to be in the beginning. Basically, the Losses were taking part in the average results, which does not make much sense since when you loose (and its not a Deck Out) is either due to a bad hand or dead by damage (bad game either ways) and it doesn't matter how many cards you had left cause that was not due to more or less cards on deck. For those who didn't got this text, check this (http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5020/41450684.jpg) :D (oh, and that was done by the coder, not me...thats why it was done in paint :P )
Also, we have noticed that some users might be browsing our website with JavaScript disabled. Currently there are some features (most of them) that need it enabled and do not give any kind of warning if it is disabled. We are working to enable warnings for when it is disabled and also reduce the need of it in some cases.
About the issues with the bandwidth, we will have to wait for another user access spike (maybe next weekend) to see if it was an isolated incident or not.
Have fun ;)
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ahah :) can't be bothered to install something just to create that formula xD Plus i'm tired from a long day. Might go play my first game soon instead, to relax :P
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I have one suggestion that is not about statistics but general web design.
The problem with your page is that a new users sees nothing until he registers. Any link you click, you get "please register". That's a bad move because many people hate to register to all kinds of suspicious websites.
If it's possible at some point, you might consider putting some kind of content on the front page. Kind of like a sneak preview or a trailer of what kind awesome content the user gets access to if he registers. If you do that, I guarantee more people will register.
But I'm sure you guys were already planning this. Just to let you know in case you hadn't.
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Yup, we are aware of that.
Thats why we created the guest account and shared the login info in here, but that was not forgotten, just postponed. We were watching the people's response to the website, but that should be added soon :)
Thanks for the comment ;)
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If it's possible at some point, you might consider putting some kind of content on the front page.
Yea, totally understandable. Don't we all reject to register often because we don't know what is it about? :)
That was just taken care of, most features will be enabled for anyone not logged in or registered; as if one was logged in as 'guest'. For now, deleting decks and accessing 'settings' is not possible during that status.
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Thanks for your support SG:)
Keep up with the good job on this forum by teh way ;p
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I don't understand the "cards left" and "cards won" feature.
With cards left, if you're trying to get a sense of the deck's speed, that's not how to do it. Sometimes a game takes forever and yet I still have 10 cards left in my deck, be it due to AI slowness or rewinds. Other times when I get the hourglasses out, the game goes very fast but I only have 3 cards left. There's too many variables that go into cards left to use it as a stat.
And with the cards won, I have no idea how that's relevant to how good a deck is.
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As you might have seen, that statistic was suggested quite some time ago.
Average Cards Left statistic, is very situational and has lots of variables. I totally agree with you in it. I myself fill up that value between 1 and 3 very often and having eternity i know i last for more than that.
About cards won, it's just as it says, cards won. We noticed some people keep track on that on the forums, just as general statistics.
None of these values influences how good or bad the deck is, and cards left on deck may also not mean that deck is too small or too big for the reasons you and i have remembered, possibly others. Hence, both these values are optional. If you can't be bothered to insert them, don't, i guess anyone can say you didn't by checking they're not really right (if inserted couple of them when started), or if at zero.
Also if anyone wants to pay attention to ACL on deck, we can assume for now they know the deck which has been the case, they can tell its possibly not really important, mainly when having eternity in it.
Then again, you don't have to fill those values.
If you want for some reason, i can delete that data from your battles, leaving the rest intact, making it seem you never inserted it.
Let us know about any suggestions you might have ;p
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The site looks nice, and I can't wait for more updates. Apparently it's also very popular in this community ;)
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Umm is it? :P I hope it is ;p
thanks :)
Just did some improvements but no new features, just optimized for faster loadings :p
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Boo :)
We started working on deck details.
Some of the short maintenance periods we had was to prepare database for that.
Here's a screenshot (http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1693/67502533.jpg) of how things might look like when ready, altho there's still a lot to do.
Comments are appreciated ;P
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Looking good so far, Frozen.
Added version 1.19. No new FGs to report, however. Good luck on your deck card system - it's looking cool so far.
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Heads up for the newly added feature - deck details added. No images unfortunately, we might or might not add those, we'll look into it at some time later. Right now you can see an example (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=104149759) in which decks are displayed and inserted in a similar way than statistics were.
Note that you can add cards before or after selecting which deck you're editing, so as the mark. You have to press the button "Save deck" to actually save, and if you want to check what cards a deck has you can check its link or Load it up.
Note that you can use the load function to have a deck loaded up and save into another, in case they're similar rainbows, half the job will be done, no need to insert all the cards again.
For any bugs or suggestions please comment here :)
Layout comments will also be greatly appreciated, we were trying to figure out the best way to display those options mainly at decks menu, and we would in fact like to have a better solution, but right now that's all we got into.
~FrozenFlame & Jonybat
edit: Hum we're aware of the first-time no-permission bug, we'll look into it soon enough. Refreshing should fix it :) Fixed.
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(Bump)
A suggestion regarding total win %:
Currently it averages total games won/total games played, but I think that's rather flawed and there's a way to get that % more consistent across the different versions.
Average the percent wins of gods instead of the total games won.
This way the stat assumes all gods are played equally. For instance, currently, what if you played 10/20 games against Rainbow and lost them all? Then the percent shown would be lower than it really is since the chances of playing Rainbow 10 times in a row is amazingly low.
Conversely, if you played 10/20 games against Paradox and won them all, the percent shown would be skewed higher than it actually is.
However, if you averaged the percents, the 10 loses would only count as a single 0% (albeit a precise 0%), while the 10 wins would only count as a single 100%. Making the total win % much closer to a precise value.
Since you theoretically play all Gods the same amount, this should be the assumption made for the total statistic. So average the percents versus the games.
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Statistics should average out in the long run anyway, i.e., it'll be that all gods are played equally if it is entirely random. There is no practical point in assuming all gods are played the same amount. Statistics from a small sample size are flawed anyway.
They may be a point to having both % wins though to really see the divergence.
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If you look at my FG topic and compare those with what Elements Statistics says, for 1.17 it rose 6% after averaging %s instead, for 1.18 -7%, for 1.19 -4%.
Though over time they should average out, I'm thinking we'll never have enough time for each version to get that much of a sample size.
And since we're mainly working with smaller sample sizes (72 games at most for 1.17, 27 for 1.18, and in the 50s now I think for 1.19), this is a more reliable way.
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Hey:)
I'm sorry for the delay, i reckon i didn't see the posts earlier.
I understand what you mean PuppyChow. If one has way too many fights against one specific FG compared to all the others (say up to 10 fights against each FG but 30 fights against one very easy, or one very hard), then the total win rate will be influenced alot by this unequilibrium between battles.
But, for a fact, if one tends to go against more of a specific group of FGs and less against another (or if FGs have different chance of being fought against between each others), its certain that for that player, it matters more to beat the FGs he uses to face most of the time.
Although with same deck you and i can face different (common) FGs (For instance i myself go alot against miracle sometimes. And seism. But i almost never see Ferox. I even thought it was taken off FGs list for some time).
Averaging the single win rates is also not a bad way but it's not perfect also.
Hum. I'm thinking about it and indeed i don't know which way would be the better. Averaging the win rates can also be bad if we do indeed face some FGs more often than others.
For cases like this one (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=107358030), we have the following average of win ratios:
(100+100+0+100+0+80+80+100+33+57+86+22+33+56+60)/15 = 907/15 = 60.47% win rate (sorted by total of games played). According to the actual system: 55%.
Now, say you'll face Paradox (no, it didn't exist in 1.17 but the case would be similar if you had never faced Obliterator: You faced him only once. That was close to happening).
So, according to the current system:
if you win: (21+27+1)/88 ~ 55.68%
if you lose: (21+27)/88 ~54.55%
According to the win-rate-avg:
if you win:
100+(100+100+0+100+0+80+80+100+33+57+86+22+33+56+60)/16 = 1007/16 ~ 62.94%
if you lose:
0+(100+100+0+100+0+80+80+100+33+57+86+22+33+56+60)/16 = 907/16 ~ 56.69%
With 88 games played, the result of this battle may vary the total win rate from 54.55% to 55.68% (current system), or from 56.69% to 62.94% (win-rate average). Should one single game out of 88 be responsible for such a big difference (out of 88 games) ~ 6 to 7% with the win-rate average system? I'm not sure.
Of course, this is normal to happen (mathematically) if we calculate this way since we have a totally new entry in the formula.
This is quite interesting though, is there a better way to calculate the total win rate ? Hum. Either way i would like to read more opinions regarding this.
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Actually, you just delivered the best argument why the win rates should be averaged. After all, we aren't really interested in the previous performance of the decks but the performance we can expect from the decks when we use them in the future. And in your example, the matchup against Paradox would weigh in less than the matchup against Morte although in future matches the chances to play against them are equal.
Make the matchup against each Element count exactly the same - or weigh them according to their presence on the wheel. Everything else might have greater statistical purity but doesn't help at all when evaluating the potential of a deck.
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Your example was just a case where you only played a single game against an easy god. While it may be true that it alters it more than normal, if it were an easy god, your percent win against it may very well be close to 100%. So the percent if you won (likely) would actually be closer to your real percent.
Let's take your example if you win:
100+(100+100+0+100+0+80+80+100+33+57+86+22+33+56+60)/16 = 1007/16 ~ 62.94%
Now let's say that you play 7 more games against paradox all in a row. You win 6/7 of them, bringing your percent to 87.5.
87.5+(100+100+0+100+0+80+80+100+33+57+86+22+33+56+60)/16 = 994.5/16 ~ 62.2%
So you see, if you include paradox and win with 1 game, your percent win is actually VERY close to what it would be if you had played 8 games, since paradox is a very easy god and your percent would be close to 100 anyway.
The problem arises when you're 0% against a very easy god or 100% a very hard god, but then it's just like with other samples: the more trials you have, the more exact it is. That would just be a case of you needing more trials :).
Oh, and what Silken said.
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Umm Yea.
That will be changed soon then, it will be announced at login's sidebar and about, where the updates are listed. :)
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-Modified how overall win rate is calculated.
It is now the average of the partial win rates (win rate against each FG). For the overall calculation, the partial win rates are not rounded up, only final result is. Partial win rates of 0% due to having no battles ocurred are ignored for overall calculation, but a partial win rate of 0% with battles (which means, player never won a game against that FG) will be taken into account for the overall win rate.
If this was unclear, for a practical example, suppose there are only 4 FGs.
FG1 - win rate: 60%
FG2 - win rate: 0% (at least 1 battle played)
FG3 - win rate: 0% (0 battles played)
FG4 - win rate: 30%
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overall win rate = (60+0+30)/3 = 30%. [ the 0 comes from FG2 ].
Holding same stats, if you face FG3 as next FG and you lose, partial win rate is 0% (you lost), and
overall win rate = (60+0+0+30)/4 = 22.5% ~ 23% rounded.
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Added FG "Octane" to the database.
Also, we're planning to enhance the website visually at any time, working on it :)
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Please help me! When I put in the info and hit enter, it just says "Going back to home:)." It doesn't say I made any errors, but I can't log in!
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hum.. When does that happen, when trying to login?
Have you logged in before?
Also, have you got your cookies enabled? (I guess so, just making sure about this one)
I am going to take a look tonight, please give details if you can :)
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hum.. When does that happen, when trying to login?
Have you logged in before?
Also, have you got your cookies enabled? (I guess so, just making sure about this one)
I am going to take a look tonight, please give details if you can :)
This happens when trying to register. Never logged is before. Yes, I do. I am running Windows 7, and IE.
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Are you trying to register with the same nick than here on these forums (918273645)? If so, it seems the username is taken.. although it should say that the username is taken, rather than "going back to home"; in this case.
I am having no much time to check this issue at the moment, so if it persists, please pm me the username you want to register as, i'll make it happen if username is not taken :)
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Is it possible to reduce required number of username's characters to register in Elements Statistics from 5 to 3?
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Yea, done, and tested. Still, if you find troubles please let me know.
Password still requires at least 5 though. Ideally for safety reasons a minimum of 8 would be nice but i also don't like when places require 7-8 when i don't want to. :P
Still waiting for some feedback from 918273645 :s
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Yea, done, and tested. Still, if you find troubles please let me know.
Hm... got error that:
Invalid username inserted.
Only alphanumeric chars and underscore are allowed.
Must have at least 3 characters
...and I was using 3 letters as username.... weird.
UPDATE: You have successfully registered the name
:)
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Is it possible to see other people's stats or can you only see your own win/loss rates?
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It is possible to see other people's statistics, however you have to know the url for so. We opted this way so it's a way for users to keep it private or share as they best wish. The link is provided by the website to the user at statistics menu. See this (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=107358030) as example.
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I was hoping for a database with the totals from all decks/users, but I guess that answers my question. Thanks.
Nice deck btw, I'd be lucky to get a 40% win ratio... (0.40)
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I have such stats atm:
False God EM Won DO Lost ACL CW Total Win Rate
Total 17 9 0 26 7 15 52 0.52
Shoudn't it show 0.50 at win rate?
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It's average win ratio, not total. It's mentioned on the "About" page.
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DO you think you could make it optional if we want the statistics to ignore specific gods? For example, the nyphmomania deck ignores Divine Glory as a FG and instantly forfeits. Taking this out and knowing very well this is a default loss, it might be better to see how the deck fares against the other FGs while taking out those that you know there is no way you can beat.
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The obvious way to do that would be to simply not enter those fights... If you have 0 encounters with a particular god, that god is not included in the average win ratio.
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Delreich said it all :)
Well, it's one possible feature but i'm not sure if many people would enter statistics knowing that they wouldn't count.. that's in some sense, wasting time :x i agree with Delreich i'd rather not to enter info that i don't want displayed. It would even save me some time in some sense :)
Thanks for your suggestion, we keep being open to suggestions actually, and i said we're working on a better layout, it's partially done but wouldn't like to implement it "partially", and not having much free time at the moment. Still checking this to stay updated though :) Just keeping you informed
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I already have sent you an Email regarding this.
I can't access my data anymore, it tells me that my password is incorrect. I'm absolutly sure that I haven't changed my password.
Is there anything you can do about it?
P.S. My username is on elementsstatistics is the same as here, also in the game itself its the same.
Until you can tell me if I will have to do a new account, I'll just keep track of my games in a Excel-File, that's not a big deal.
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Yes, we have replied already
*bangs head to the wall* nice priorities .. try to make stuff look good, screw the password retriever.. sigh.
heh..
Might start asking for emails soon to have some safety related to that.
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Hi
Great stats page, but personally, I just hope the new cards are added in there =)
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Sorry, i've been away from this, even expected more posts, i will search around for the cards added hopefully still today :)
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Added cards:
New cards:
- Phoenix (and Ash)
- Hope
- Pharaoh
- Fractal
- Butterfly Effect
- Flooding
mentioned in http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4066.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4066.0.html), left to rename thorn shield, and left to add mummy, couldn't find it anywhere. I suppose it's a time creature, can anyone confirm ? I could not find a picture, just references to the card.
I'm sorry for the delay, by the way :s
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mummy is death.
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1.21 card changes in detail: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4049.0.html
New FGs: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4938.msg57774#msg57774
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Woah, many FGs coming out. Thanks for the update Delreich :)
- Added mummy, all FGs, will keep an eye on 1.22, saw an existing thread about it already so it should be out soon.
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A few suggestions:
- Add multiple total win rates display:
a) Naive total win rate (Wins/Losses)
b) Normalized win/loss rate (Normalize the FG Encounters so they match the assumed statistical normalized encounter rate: ie I have 8 losses against seism and 1 win against Fire Queen, no other records, from what I gather the chance to meet fire queen is twice as high as meeting seims, I've just been unlucky, the total normalized win rate should now be 16/24 66%)
c) Naive win rate excluding auto quit FGs - either allow defining auto quit FGs or mark any god that have no win as auto quit
d) Normalized win/loss rate excluding auto quit FGs
- Add graphs how often you win against specific gods, how often you encounter them, how often you fight FGs daily, whatever you can think of, graphs are great <3
- Support importing decks from card codes exported from the game
- Integrate with a card code display script and display deck images similar to how it's done on the forum
- Provide export of the data in some format (csv?, xml?) so we can run our own twisted statistics on the data
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Thanks man, great job on the stats page!
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Thank you for your support!
A few suggestions:
- Add multiple total win rates display:
a) Naive total win rate (Wins/Losses)
b) Normalized win/loss rate (Normalize the FG Encounters so they match the assumed statistical normalized encounter rate: ie I have 8 losses against seism and 1 win against Fire Queen, no other records, from what I gather the chance to meet fire queen is twice as high as meeting seims, I've just been unlucky, the total normalized win rate should now be 16/24 66%)
c) Naive win rate excluding auto quit FGs - either allow defining auto quit FGs or mark any god that have no win as auto quit
d) Normalized win/loss rate excluding auto quit FGs
- Add graphs how often you win against specific gods, how often you encounter them, how often you fight FGs daily, whatever you can think of, graphs are great <3
- Support importing decks from card codes exported from the game
- Integrate with a card code display script and display deck images similar to how it's done on the forum
- Provide export of the data in some format (csv?, xml?) so we can run our own twisted statistics on the data
Some of these features are completely unknown for me (export to other-than-raw-text file, graphs); but there are probably some stuff freely available i could use. Or it might not be hard with little research.
I liked very much your suggestions, i'll put them on standby for some time though, got exams coming soon and before starting them i would like to finish an unfinished job related to the website - some visual improvements, which were left also in standby some time ago to be honest.. :'(
Sent a pm to clarify some of the suggestions, hope to be back on this soon :)
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I was tracking stats, and all of a sudden the statistics page jumped back to the login screen. I logged back in and all of my stats for my decks disappeared...
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Added version 1.22
I was tracking stats, and all of a sudden the statistics page jumped back to the login screen. I logged back in and all of my stats for my decks disappeared...
And this happened when it was added. We use to force logout everyone so everyone starts inserting new battles in new version. Check in your statistics page, switch the version which you want to see statistics for, you'll see they're still there. :)
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Thanks for the phenomenal tool... it's been ridiculously useful in tracking the performance of decks at this point!
I did have a question about how it calculates the "win rate" currently...
Looking at my stats currently at: http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=4005244472
The deck has had 51 games played, with 20 total wins (10 EMs, 10 wins). This should be resulting in a 39.21% overall win average, however the system is calculating 33%. What's the nuance that I'm not understanding in the calculation?
Thanks in advance!
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Thanks for the phenomenal tool... it's been ridiculously useful in tracking the performance of decks at this point!
I did have a question about how it calculates the "win rate" currently...
Looking at my stats currently at: http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=4005244472
The deck has had 51 games played, with 20 total wins (10 EMs, 10 wins). This should be resulting in a 39.21% overall win average, however the system is calculating 33%. What's the nuance that I'm not understanding in the calculation?
Thanks in advance!
Sum of all the win rate, averaged out (for the FG you played any game in)
It has been vastly tested and this is more accurate
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Sum of all the win rate, averaged out (for the FG you played any game in)
It has been vastly tested and this is more accurate
Thanks for the quick response! I'm not sure I understand how this comes out to be more accurate, but I'll check the board and development history to see if I can get a better grasp... Appreciate the quick explanation behind the calculation!
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Great tool, however I'd like to suggest that you implement something that keeps track of FG battle time. I think that this would be useful for people who want to find out not only the win rate of a deck, but how fast it wins against gods. This could lead to more interesting statistics about a deck, like the number of spins per hour, or number of wins in an hour. Thanks again for such an awesome tool!
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Hi there
Just notice flooding is still called flooding upped, shouldnt it be inundation? :)
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Thanks for reminding us yaladilae:)
About keeping track on time i'm not sure its usefull, since its very subjective, some players use decks better than others, and i believe some players focus on elements while others could be multi-tasking..
Thought we had some free time now since 1 week ago but got more stuff to do. We managed inbetween the busy times to finish the visual improvements we had on hold though, they aren't as good as we wanted initially but i guess its worth to launch it and improve later. So...
- Added some visual improvements, mainly on statistics' table, aswell as its new interaction with user was improved
- Renamed Flooding (Thanks yaladilae, had forgotten this one)
Hope you enjoy:)
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For some reason, I can't seem to register onto this site (the 'two words' to enter for verification never show up, so I enter a name/password only to be unable to complete the registration process). :( Is there something I'm missing? Or was there an update that caused this new bug?
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Hi
Sorry about that. That bug was caused when the site was updated 2 days ago, due to the existence of a development version of it.
It should be fixed later today (i don't have access to the server).
Take care ;)
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Fixed now, my mistake.
You should be able to register now, i'm sorry for the trouble, and have fun :)
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I can't log in now,
because my nickname has 4 chars :(
fix it please
when i am trying to log in it tells me that the login should have 5 chars
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Hi
Frozen just changed the minimum requirement to 4 chars for both register and login.
The weird thing is that the register always had that min 5 chars requisite, so we would like to know how did you (and some more users ::) ) managed to register. So, we would appreciate to everyone that managed to trick the system, reply here with the approximate date of registration, the browser used (and version) and any additional info that you think that could be relevant.
Have fun ;)
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i still can't login
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no help for me? :(
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I'm sorry for de delay, you shall now be able to log.
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Thanks for the phenomenal tool... it's been ridiculously useful in tracking the performance of decks at this point!
I did have a question about how it calculates the "win rate" currently...
Looking at my stats currently at: http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/getstatistics.php?dv=4005244472
The deck has had 51 games played, with 20 total wins (10 EMs, 10 wins). This should be resulting in a 39.21% overall win average, however the system is calculating 33%. What's the nuance that I'm not understanding in the calculation?
Thanks in advance!
Sum of all the win rate, averaged out (for the FG you played any game in)
It has been vastly tested and this is more accurate
Sorry but I don't see how its more accurate because I currently have 3 EM, 2 wins, 0 deck out, 4 losses (total 5 - 4) but my win rate is 0.50 when it should be 0.56
oh, and suggestion: Add a calculation for EM Rate
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I can't log in now,
because my nickname has 4 chars :(
fix it please
when i am trying to log in it tells me that the login should have 5 chars
I have same problem. :(
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This is a god damn old thread. Don't post on old threads or I will kick your ass.
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I'm trying to register, but it keeps telling me that the username's already been taken no matter what I typed in.
I literally typed in random numbers for the username once and a simple password:
User: <random numbers>
Pass: pikmin
Still no luck :( HALP MEH
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cookies issue?
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Hello, will you guys update to 1.26?
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All my statistics have been deleted and i don't konw why :'(
can someone help me please?
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sorry pplz, but FrozenFlame hasn't been active on the forums for over five months. I guess we'll all have to use our own spreadsheets until someone else starts/updates a similar website.
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sorry pplz, but FrozenFlame hasn't been active on the forums for over five months. I guess we'll all have to use our own spreadsheets until someone else starts/updates a similar website.
But we can still use the statistics. The FG are the same.