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Offline ShrinkTopic starter

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Elements Ranking Study https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34221.msg431633#msg431633
« on: November 28, 2011, 12:09:14 am »
Alright because I don't have time for this, I would like to do a study with the community on elements and their strengths and weaknesses.

If you post, be sure to include at least three elements.

If your post is obviously an extreme bias, I will totally discard it from the study.

This is to help finish my PvP Event "The Journey Begins (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,34200.0.html)"
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Re: Elements Ranking Study https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34221.msg431708#msg431708
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2011, 03:40:07 am »
Not quite sure what you're asking here.

Something like:
Fire has good PC and fast creatures
Life has good creatures but no PC
Entropy has a great toolkit but limited cheap beats

?

Offline Aves

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Re: Elements Ranking Study https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34221.msg431778#msg431778
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2011, 06:12:44 am »
My 2  :electrum

:air Air's strength lies in powerful cheap CC, but its damage potential is hampered by a high cost. Air is Defensive.

:earth Earth is a paragon of strength, both offensively and defensively. However, it must be infused with other elements for its speed. Alone, it is too slow to be of use. Earth is Defensive.

:water Water's strength lies in controlling the environment but it suffers from a slightly less powerful offensive capability. Water is Defensive.

:fire Fire's strength lies in its powerful offense. However, it sacrifices all defensive ability for this. Fire is Offensive.

:light Light's strength lies in its powerful passive defense. However, it suffers from a serious dearth of active abilities and a lackluster offense. Light is Defensive.

:darkness Darkness' strength lies in deception and using an opponent's strength against them. However, it lacks a unified strategy- there are many paths that lead to darkness, and this can lead to a slow development. Darkness is Offensive.

:gravity Gravity's strength lies in its fortitude. However, it suffers in speed and quick damage. Gravity is Defensive.

:time Time's strength lies in control of the game's speed. However, it suffers in offensive ability. Time is Defensive.

:aether Aether's strength lies in invulnerability and manipulation of the mind/energy. However, it is costly to play. Aether is Defensive.

:entropy Entropy's strength lies in unpredictability and large amounts of control. However, it lacks consistency and easily backfires. Entropy is Offensive.

:life Life's strength lies in quantity over quality. It lacks defensive measures to ensure that its multitudes of creatures survive. Life is Offensive.

:death Death's strength lies in... death. It is very slow to begin, and needs time to fully realize its potential. However, given that time, :death is unstoppable. Death is Offensive.


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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Elements Ranking Study https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34221.msg431789#msg431789
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2011, 06:50:06 am »
 :fire
Fire is attrition. Both offensive with cremation and defensive where it trades card for card.
Strength: Destruction (Control and Offense)
Weakness: Vulnerable to Card Advantage
 :death
Death feeds on attrition. It gets stronger as both players and their forces die.
Strength: Death Triggers multiple effects
Weakness: Slow start while creatures are healthy.
 :aether
Aether is slow and steady. It takes effort to affect them but the opponent has extra time to try.
Strength: Resilient (Immaterial, Phase Shield, Fractal Army)
Weakness: Slow (High Costs)

I selected these three to showcase a tradeoff between speed and card advantage.
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Offline ShrinkTopic starter

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Re: Elements Ranking Study https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34221.msg431826#msg431826
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2011, 11:17:20 am »
Thank you, I will be creating a statistic of strengths and weaknesses that are most mentioned. I will then add the "outliers" nearing the end to see if they can hold up against the other arguments.
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Re: Elements Ranking Study https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34221.msg431943#msg431943
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 06:45:27 pm »
Trying to rank the elements by control (might do defense/offense later):

 :entropy has the best overall control IMO. It has Chaos Seed/Pandemonium as well as Maxwell's Demon to damage or kill creatures, Mutation/Fallen Elf which can also be used as control, and Antimatter/Purple Nymph to negate damage. It also has PC with Butterfly Effect and QC with Discord.

 :fire is a close second, with Fire Bolt, Rage Potion/Red Nymph, Fire Shield and Rain of Fire in its CC arsenal. It also has the cheapest PC in Deflagration, but no QC.

 :water is also a strong control element. Besides all the ways to freeze creatures (Freeze, Ice Bolt, Arctic Squid, Ice Shield) it also has Toadfish and Mind Flayer as CC, Trident as QC, and Ice Bolt can also be used as soft PC.

:darkness is also well-rounded and fairly strong, with Steal for PC, Devourers for QC, and Liquid Shadow/Black Nymph, Drain Life, and Parasite for CC.

:gravity has two of the better control cards in the game with Otyugh (CC) and Black Hole (QC). It also has Gravity Pull for additional CC.

:earth has a moderate level of control with Basilisk Blood/Auburn Nymph and Iridium Warden for soft CC, Pulverizer for PC, and Earthquake for QC.

:time has the strong card Reverse Time/Eternity for CC, as well as the underused Procrastination. It has no PC or QC, however.

:death has Skull Buckler for CC, but all of its other control is slow - Plague, Virus and Aflatoxin/Grey Nymph.

:air has some good control with Owl's Eye, Shockwave, and Unstable Gas/Blue Nymph. However, it lacks PC or QC.

:aether is a relatively weak control element with only Lightning, Lobotomizer, and debatably Parallel Universe. It also has no PC or QC.

:life has Thorn Carapace - admittedly one of the best CC cards in the game - but no other control.

:light has virtually no control, with only Holy Flash against death and darkness and nothing else.

Blue Ranger reporting, ready for teamwork and silly songs!

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Re: Elements Ranking Study https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34221.msg432093#msg432093
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 01:16:28 am »
:fire is probably one of the greatest elements because of everything that it encompasses. It has creature control, permanent control, and powerful creatures. Its only weakness is that its creatures are relatively frail and if it can't use its spells to control the opponent, it's not very powerful.
:darkness is another very powerful element because of their ability to steal quanta and health and permanents from their opponent.
:light is one of those elements that don't have much control, permanent, or creature, so it has to find some way to kill its opponent through other means as rushing isn't its best choice either.

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Re: Elements Ranking Study https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34221.msg432138#msg432138
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2011, 02:49:29 am »
:fire Fire's strength lies in its powerful offense. However, it sacrifices all defensive ability for this. Fire is Offensive.
Well, Fire has the strongest stall in the game, so "sacrifices all defensive ability" is a little harsh. Even I'm not that rude to Fire!

Anyways, srm, what's most important to your event is ranking between monos; since many of the decks used will be monos and a strong mono is necessary to ever get anywhere. Here's what I believe is an accurate ranking in mono vs mono games.

 :entropy Entropy finishes first primarily because of Discord, but also because of strong support and the ability for both rush and stall. Discord rush alone can beat any mono that some elements could possibly bring. Entropy also brings Dissipation and Antimatter stalls to anyone that tries to defend against Discord. Entropy can run multiple different powerful decks that dominate mono environments. In the event, Entropy could be handicapped by not being allowed to use weapons.

 :earth Earth comes in second because of its speed, denial, and control all packed into a single versatile deck. Earthquakes tear through mono decks because most Elements are forced to use only two quanta sources, Pillars and Pendulums. Since Immophoenix's nerf, Graboid is the strongest creature in the game and can easily fit into a mono deck if a Time mark is used. Basilisk Blood is one of the best CC cards in the game because hardly anything can resist it. Against an opponent with heavy control, Earth can use the resilient Stone Dragon with 10 hp. Against an opponent that relies on permanents for defense, Earth has Pulverizer. Few monos can get in the way of Mono Earth. A potential handicap would be forcing players to use a mark of a shield piece they have, which prevents Mono Earth with a Time mark for Graboids.

 :fire Mono Fire is definitely capable of beating a lot of decks. Fire Bolt can kill most creatures after a few turns, Rage Potion provides good creature control, and Fahrenheit works great with the large amount of Fire quanta in a Mono Fire. Phoenix is strong against opponents with damage based CC, and Lava Golems work great against opponents without damage based CC. Add in a great PC card, and Fire has almost everything it needs. I'm not sure what the best way to handicap Fire would be, maybe limiting spells.

 :aether Two cards make up the core of a standard unupped Mono Aether, Dimshield and Phase Dragon. The combination of a shield that blocks damage sources from entire Elements and a Dragon that is nearly impossible to kill is too powerful for many Elements to handle. Aether could be weakened by limiting the amount of Shields that can be used to, say, 4.

 :death Death has a great mono rush with efficient creatures and Poison to get past shields. Bone Wall is a great shield that can delay the opponent for 1-2 turns, which is often enough to win the game. But Death only made it as far as fifth because it lacks PC, Denial, or any fast way of CC.

 :darkness Mono Darkness has versatility with CC, PC, Denial, Healing, and strong permanents. It works well as a mono with turn-2 devourers and Drain Life, but it has two main weaknesses. Mono Darkness can't make a fast rush since it really lacks a creature with good attack for its cost. Mono Darkness also struggles to find strong CC, since Drain Life requires much more quanta than most CC cards.

 :water Water has powerful CC because of the Squid/Toadfish combo with Ice Bolts or Freezes for support. Toadfish are an efficient attacking creature that become even stronger with an Air mark for their ability. However, Water lacks PC and strong permanents; its shield and weapon are weak.

 :air Air can block entire decks with Wings, Shockwave, and Owl's Eye as well as breaking stalls with Unstable Gas. However, Air lacks PC and a fast rush. Its defense can be strong if unexpected, but any Mono can use Dragons to get past Wings when playing Mono Air.

 :light Light has the strongest healing in the game supported by a great shield and a resilient Dragon and Weapon. However, what hurts Light is its lack of CC, PC, and a fast rush. Light is more of a duo Element.

 :time Although time has good cards, it isn't an Element built for mono vs mono battles. Reverse Time is great against rainbows and duos with stat-raising cards, but it isn't nearly as strong against monos. Ghost of the Past works best only in duos that can use cards like Nightmare and Fractal.

 :life Life is like the Element of almost being worth using, except not. Its has no PC, very weak CC, a subpar weapon, and the two worst shields in the game. Its creatures, which are supposed to be its specialty, are around average. Frogs are cost efficient but easily killed, and Cockatrices have nothing special. Mitosis is a worse Fractal, and Heal is a worse Sanctuary without the protection against denial. Life's only quality card is its dragon, but with no other strong cards for support, not even its best card is worth using. Without a duo element to rely on, I don't see how Life could make it far in this event.

 :gravity Gravity ends the list because it simply cannot function as an unupgraded mono. Its cards are all either underpowered or working best in a duo. While it has some valuable cards like Black Hole, Acceleration, and Momentum, these cards require help from cards like Discord, Voodoo Doll, and Deathstalker, respectively. Gravity is a weak Element that is crippled in a mono environment.
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