Does Elements Favor Certain Deck Types?

[TheMonolith]

I believe the card upgrade system in Elements favors "rainbow" decks and small (aka "rush") decks.

Rainbow decks can modify their deck without re-buying towers. This means they can change strategies for much less coin.

Similarly, the smaller the deck, the less coin - and therefore less grinding - it takes to build and fully upgrade it. 

Very small decks are some of the more powerful strategies in the game.  If there were a true investment-reward balance, a smaller deck which takes less time to build would be less powerful.

[TheonlyrealBeef]

Well there is something I find worth noting, namely that either rainbows or small decks are favored might not be a bad thing. This is because usually if you pick a large deck (40+ cards) it's a rainbow, mono decks with 40+ cards are extremely rare, even if you have upgraded cards in abundance. So this basically favors most common decks. I'm not sure if that's a good thing (motivates the use of effective and known grinders), or a bad thing (demotivates uncommon, creative decks).

[EvaRia]

I think you misunderstand something.

The reason for smaller decks is not because they require less cards and are easier to build, but because they are the most stable and have the highest likelihood of giving you the cards you need when you need them.

Larger rainbow decks are also not favored because they are easier to build, but because they have a large level of utility and can hold a large variety of cards.

If you play for a while, you'll come to realize that the electrum costs of cards become pretty insignificant.

The idea is not to reward the players just because they have more electrum, but rather because they are good deck-builders and use an efficient deck.

[TheMonolith]

I have been playing nearly since the game came online, and I understand exactly.  Personally, I dislike these deck types being favored, but that was not the point of my post.

I do not mean favored by the players, I mean favored by the system of the game.  In other words, they are unfair because of an imbalance inherent in the system.  These deck types are easier to change strategy with, and they make it easier to have enough cards in your deck to modify it for a particular tournament. 

To further clarify, the system of the game Elements is such that it will encourage more people to play rainbow decks and smaller decks when compared with mono/duo decks of larger size.

If you believe players should be rewarded for their strategy and efficiency, you should read the thread about redesigning Elements.  The exact argument being used there is that grinding is good and necessary - adding come-back value to the game.   It has been suggested that grinding is basically the ONLY point to this game.

[EvaRia]

I guess I see what you mean now, sorry to misunderstand you.

I guess you could be right, but that really has nothing to do with the game system. Some things just happen as a side effect, not because the game is trying to make you do so.

I guess you can say it favours those deck types, but it's not like it was intended or could be changed feasibly.

[Bloodshadow]

a smaller deck which takes less time to build would be less powerful

The reason that small decks are favored is that you can draw your key cards quicker. Most larger (30+ cards) non-stall decks usually have some form of card draw acceleration (Hourglass, Sundial, Precognition, Golden Nymph). However, since the game doesn't have a lot of extra-draw cards, there will naturally be more small decks than larger decks. If you want to see more large decks, more extra-draw cards are needed.

Electrum cost is pretty much the least significant factor when it comes to building decks, because you can always grind for the money.

[QuantumT]

I think it's worth noting that rush decks aren't the best the whole way. To anyone who disagrees, have fun against FGs with your rush deck.

As far as size goes, that's not exactly something unique to elements. In basically every competitive card game, you almost always play with the minimum required deck size.

[Essence]

^^ This.  The problem you're discussing is a flaw of math, not a flaw of game design.

[TheMonolith]

One of the best things about Elements is that there IS a card cap.  This makes the stall strategy possible.  Without the card cap, the ONLY viable strategy would be rush rush rush.   

This is also the reason why stall decks can't compete against FG's:  Most of them have 100 cards or more.  Beating AI 5 or 6 will almost always require a specialized - and upgraded - deck.  Here again, we have an aspect of the game which is totally pointless to attempt unless you have many, many upgraded cards at your disposal.  That is, you have been GRINDING a lot. 

Maybe endless grinding is no problem to you - as it is probably no problem to most of the players who spend 8+ hours a day playing.

Another example of  the vet vs. newbie duality.   If you already have 6 copies of every upgrade, then obviously the amount of grinding required to make a competitive deck is none of your concern.  On the other hand, if you are trying to start out in this game (or simply trying to change deck strategy), and want to be successful in anything but PvP1 or AI2, you need to spend literally hundreds of hours GRINDING.

In this game, the only real way to improve your deck is to upgrade all your cards.  At 1500 coins a piece, that's a LOT of grinding.  So Electrum is a HUGE factor.

[Mithcairion]

First:  There is a difference between a stall deck and a deck-out deck.  They are not necessarily one and the same, although the point of a stall deck may be to deck out your opponent.  In point of fact, one of the most popular FG fighting decks out there, CCWB http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9545.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9545.0.html) is often modified to turn into a stall deck that has a decent (around 50% or so) win-rate vs. the FGs.

Second:  There is absolutely no reason that it should take a new player "literally hundreds of hours GRINDING" in order to play anything other than PvP1 or AI2.  To test this theory I ran through jmizzle7's Deckbuilding 101:  From Noob to False God Slayer http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1190.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1190.0.html) on a brand new account I created.  Not only was I able to defeat the AI3s (yes, the updated ones) within ten minutes of starting, but within an hour I had completed the quest tree, short of beating a FG yet.

Thirdly:  Yes, it does take a lot of electrum to upgrade a card, let alone a deck.  If your goal is to play this game for a week and become one of the most powerful players in the game, well, that's simply not going to happen and quite frankly, I'm OK with that.  This game is set up to be rewarding to those who put a lot of time and effort into it, not for those who are looking for a quick ascent to the top.

Fourth:  There are many events in the community that are set up to cater to those who do not have access to a plethora of upped cards such as many tournaments, PvP leagues, War!, and other competitions.  With this in mind, it is not necessary to even have any upped cards to enjoy what is, in my mind, the best part of actually playing the game.

Yes, I know that many brand new players are unfamiliar with the forums and thus the resources that are available to them (the trainer, the Wiki, the Elements community as a whole).  That is why so many players refer players that have questions to the threads in the forums (I have personally seen jmdt and willng3 do this) either when in general chat or on Kongregate.

[TheMonolith]

Yes, completing the quest tree (minus false gods) SHOULD be very easy.  It is just the introduction to the game.

And I stand by my statement that it takes hundreds of hours of grinding to build a good, competitive deck.  I mean one that is not one of the pre-fab specialty decks that have been posted.

[QuantumT]

You mean that you're limiting yourself to decks that don't already exist as well? I still don't think it will take 100s of hours. I'd put it at 50 tops.