Deck "Characteristic Curves" (in preliminary development)

[darkrobe]

Hallloooooo!

I have an idea for comparing deck types. but to do it i would like some input on what people in the community consider are classic examples of some deck types:

What do you consider a "classic":

Rush Deck
Semi Rush Deck
Domin Deck
Stall Deck
Denial Deck

Id like to compare these deck types using my idea but i want to test decks that are considered standards of these categories.

Please help me out.

And save me some time by giving me the deck codes please.

*edit: for those of us new to this topic. Im trying to develop and analyze characteristic curves of deck types. they will look something like the following:

[Elbirn]

I'm not really an expert on the subject..at all..by any means. A deckhelper would probably be able to make much better input. But to get the thread started..

Shrieker rush is (or at least used to be?) the definitive rush deck. I read a thread about the best "speed" decks and that was in there along with the mono-death mummy/poison rush. I don't know how popular that one is, but based on it's stats, it was the best unupgraded rush deck for a while.

I don't know what a semi-rush or domin deck is..

Firestall seems to be the classic stall, and the earthstall (The one where you abuse stoneskin and miracle to finish a game with 500hps and get ridiculous elemental mastery bonuses?) is another well known one.

The only denial deck I really am familiar with is the darkness/aether devourer + fractal quanta denial. Earth/Gravity earthquakes/blackhole decks too.

Hope this helps a bit


EDIT: Domin = creature spam and or creature control? In that case, any deck involving fractal would fit in that category. If you're looking for CC, a scarab spam would be great. Aether/water decks using ultiharid and/or lobotomizer would work too.

[darkrobe]

So something like this for rush?

by darkrobe

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6rk 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77g 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 8ps

Okay, ill start with this. It might be a good idea to set up an example of what im trying to do so people get the idea.

[darkrobe]

So Im trying to sort of characterize decks by what id like to call their "Characteristic Curves"

Im planing on including an analysis of damage potential over time (basically how much damage a deck likely has available to it on average at any turn in the game), Healing potential over time, damage reduction % over time, and possibly some other factors.

Here is an example of damage potential over time for a shrieker rush.

I want classic examples of deck types so that I can sort of categorize them by how there curves look. This is something i plan on working on over Thanksgiving holiday.

[Ekki]

This is something i plan on working on over Thanksgiving holiday.

That's what are holidays for

I say Shrieker Rush is better shown with -2/4 Towers, +2/4 Stone Golems and maybe 2 Precogs (for 2 Towers if you only add 2 Golems)
Also, Mono-Life EM (USEM) and Adrena Mono-life are both quite common. 6xFrogs 6xCocks*/Heals/Adrenaline 4xDragons and the rest, pillars/towers.
*I'm looking at you, dirty minded!
What else? CP'd, Momentum'd or Blessed Scorps are all good options if you wanna try them, although IDK their respective optimal builds (I run 6xScorps, 6xMomentum, 6xReverse Time, 10xTime Pillars, 2xPrecogs, unupped deck, Mark of Gravity)

[ralouf]

Also you forgot tomention control deck with lot of draw + some sundial and ton of PC + CC, then a quinted steam machine to kill you. they are not stall IMO.

Intersting topic I post in order to keep track

[Elbirn]

...Darkrobe, if I could uprep you, I would. Unfortunately you'll just have to accept my praise.

*Praises*

anyhoo, how are you making these graphs? Do you have some sort of equation or formula, or are you just looking at them deck by deck and going "okay, best case scenario imaginable, *this* much damage could be done at most"?

I'd really like to see this idea/thread expanded on. It could be a good resource for the "turns to win study" as well as proving which decks are the best by using cold hard mathematical evidence. Potential to be *very* helpful for deck building.

[darkrobe]

Also you forgot tomention control deck with lot of draw + some sundial and ton of PC + CC, then a quinted steam machine to kill you. they are not stall IMO.

Intersting topic I post in order to keep track

Lol Thats why Im asking for common/classic examples of decks out there people use.

...Darkrobe, if I could uprep you, I would. Unfortunately you'll just have to accept my praise.

*Praises*

anyhoo, how are you making these graphs? Do you have some sort of equation or formula, or are you just looking at them deck by deck and going "okay, best case scenario imaginable, *this* much damage could be done at most"?

I'd really like to see this idea/thread expanded on. It could be a good resource for the "turns to win study" as well as proving which decks are the best by using cold hard mathematical evidence. Potential to be *very* helpful for deck building.

Ill fine tune my equations as i get more experience making them. Right now for damage potential I am counting all your creatures on the field and your weapon and the max damage they could do if they werent Creature controlled. (so for example, if i have 4 shriekers on the field. the damage potential is 40, 4 buried shrieker, 40 damage still (because you can unburry them) , 4 shriekers 1 frozen, still 40 because the frozen one still has the potential to deal damage in future turns). 4 shriekers and they kill one of them, you now have 30 damage potential because the 4th shrieker has been taken out of play permanently.

etc.

Ill fine tune my other factors as i test more decks.

Edit: Id like to provide a baseline that other measures of deck effectiveness can be compared against in the future. Because TTW will obviously be a function of this damage potential curve. and QI will effect the shape and shiftedness of the curves, etc. So I want to develop this analysis and then maybe in the future develop ways to predict other properties of decks from these curves.

[ralouf]

I'm not talking about deck out deck I'm talking about that :

by ralouf1

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6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u9 6u9 71b 71b 74b 74b 77f 77f 77i 77i 7ah 7ah 7do 7do 7gp 7k6 7k6 7k6 7n8 7n8 7n8 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7t9 7t9 80h 80h 80i 8ps

Or something like that. this is called a timebow

[jmdt]

pestal, shriekeing nightmare, or diseq are good examples of denial decks.  For stall, you have the fire stall, mono aether, bone bolt, immortal.

[TheCrazyMango]

i would go with vreelies for rush, semi rush i have no idea, thats so vague. for a domin deck go with either dishole or tadabow or something along those lines. for stall, i might go with mono-aether. and for denial, i would use pestal.

[mesaprotector]

What's a domin deck? Never heard of that one.

As for the others:
Good examples of rush decks are cremation decks, Grabbix, speedbows with no control.
Semi-rush would be something like USEM or a fire rush with Explosions and Fire Buckler.
Stall deck - How about CCYB? Then again, it probably doesn't work as well anymore... Or you could go with a timebow. @ralouf: you forgot Eternity, it's a mainstay of timebows.
Denial: Pestal is probably the classic.