Chat - Blab versus Discord

[DoubleCapitals]

* DoctorC Casually points out that most active people in this very thread are pro-discord

I mean, sure,we're bending the point, but both Dawn and us have put a lot of time to rebuttal all the things you people present as pro-blab point.

The most vocal*

[Mr Muffin]

I think it's fine to keep discussing pros and cons for a while, but action would be a logical and necessary next step towards either compromise or making a decision. This is what I propose (feel free to comment on whether you like or dislike this proposal or how it could be changed to be more effective):

While I know no one likes to be forced to do anything, compromise requires sacrifice on both sides. I think we should all give our word and agree to test run both discord and blab. I propose we spend a week where everyone on blab agrees to use discord as if it were the main chat for elements the game. We would discuss elements, ask questions, roll dice, coordinate league games, and even run a weekly tournament on discord. Obviously some people could stay in blab in case new players happen upon the chat, but for the most part everyone would agree that if they want to chat about something, they will use discord. In preparation for this, Discord channel for elements would be set up as if the move was happening. This means that subchannels will be reorganized in the way that several people discussed, bots would be optimized as best as possible, some useless bots would be removed, and unnecessary subchannels would be combined or removed.

During this time, everyone would look at Discord objectively, trying to see if they would be OKAY with using Discord and looking at the situation as if blab had never existed. I know ultimately it is a comparison, but actively looking for things to compare brings a lot of bias into the situation.

After this, I propose that we spend the next week using blab exclusively, with heavy Discord users agreeing to return to blab. During this time, they can see if blab is really as outdated as they think, or if they forgot what blab was like with a large active daily community. Again, people would try to be as objective as they can, being honest about features that blab has that are beneficial (or could be seen as beneficial).

I know a lot of blab users already use Discord and likewise Discord users have probably spent years using blab already. But this is more to test what it's like when the ENTIRE community is using just the one chat. If everyone goes into this biased and looking for things to complain about then it won't be useful. However, if people are willing to give the other platform a chance, I think this will provide us with more information to make a better informed decision about whether to fully move to Discord or not.

I very much agree with most of this post.

I think what is said here is this best way to do this if we can make it happen.


For the things I don't agree on...

Notice how I said if we can make it happen. I would think it would be difficult to get everyone on board with this which would need to happen.

I could be wrong but I don't agree with spending a test run in only blab (though I do currently prefer blab) because all the time before our Discord thing existed was a test run. In my opinion, which may be a fact, if people didn't prefer Discord to being united in blab they wouldn't have switched. Maybe it started as a few people were in blab and Discord (but liked the Discord system better) then others joined and eventually they left blab because there was enough people using Discord that staying in blab didn't benefit them. Something like that. As far as I know the people who are Discord veterans aren't active in etg events but that's another topic.

[Manuel]

* DoctorC Casually points out that most active people in this very thread are pro-discord

I mean, sure,we're bending the point, but both Dawn and us have put a lot of time to rebuttal all the things you people present as pro-blab point.

u can be pro-discord but u aren't doing nothing that really help discord's popularity

for example why nobody of u suggested to try to revamp the current channels/servers in discord?
looking now at discord half of them are OT channels like music etc, there is no pvp channel, only a huge generic one (and scrolling a little bit the chat, is another ot channel)
i will also like to see something about deckbuilding and card design, and one for newbies with idk, pinned threads for fg/farming etc

[Solaris]

Pro-Blab.

I'm banned from Discord

[Mr Muffin]

u can be pro-discord but u aren't doing nothing that really help discord's popularity

for example why nobody of u suggested to try to revamp the current channels/servers in discord?
looking now at discord half of them are OT channels like music etc, there is no pvp channel, only a huge generic one (and scrolling a little bit the chat, is another ot channel)
i will also like to see something about deckbuilding and card design, and one for newbies with idk, pinned threads for fg/farming etc

The pro Discord people are willing to change or at least compromise Discord's channels and other things to better suit elements players right? Just checking.

[dawn to dusk]

u can be pro-discord but u aren't doing nothing that really help discord's popularity

for example why nobody of u suggested to try to revamp the current channels/servers in discord?
looking now at discord half of them are OT channels like music etc, there is no pvp channel, only a huge generic one (and scrolling a little bit the chat, is another ot channel)
i will also like to see something about deckbuilding and card design, and one for newbies with idk, pinned threads for fg/farming etc

The pro Discord people are willing to change or at least compromise Discord's channels and other things to better suit elements players right? Just checking.

Right. The current state is fine for people in the Discord, a lot of planned changes (linking accounts being a prominent example) are changes to make it better for the entire EtG crowd

[DoctorC]

* DoctorC Casually points out that most active people in this very thread are pro-discord

I mean, sure,we're bending the point, but both Dawn and us have put a lot of time to rebuttal all the things you people present as pro-blab point.

for example why nobody of u suggested to try to revamp the current channels/servers in discord?
looking now at discord half of them are OT channels like music etc, there is no pvp channel, only a huge generic one (and scrolling a little bit the chat, is another ot channel)
i will also like to see something about deckbuilding and card design, and one for newbies with idk, pinned threads for fg/farming etc

You know what, that's an excellent idea, in-fact, you can talk to either Anti or Uta (the very same Anti and Uta that run the forums) to implement those and, should they find your point vaild, they will do it in a matter of seconds, most of which are gonna take to type in the name/description of the new-found channels. In-fact it has been before with writing and tech channels. I'd like to see you lot try to change blab so we can have a more opened off-topic conversations on it like we have on discord.

Customizing/revamping our discord server takes seconds. Can you say the same about blab? :Р 

[DoctorC]

Double-posting, but I need to point out bad-flaw that a lot of pro-blab loud-standers don't realize.

Elements The Game is very, VERY finite

There's only so much you can chat-talk about in EtG. The Events still exist, but outside of fight-games you lot can still well-play in discord, there's very finite chat-talk about the game itself. Very small-little is unfound, if anything. Game's been up for tree-ages, so I wouldn't be shock-stumped to learn many have gotten their TEs and lvl80s. And past those mile-points, there's absolutely nothing that can be smart-catching enough to start a conversation, unless you get a nymph or something (which no one will heart-care about). Chat-talking about outside-event EtG is as pointless as using a relic.

And if you wanna smart-argue, ask yourself this: What can you possibly talk-bring that hasn't been found before? An undiscovered deck? A missed feature? Or maybe you have an ever-crazy idea about characterizing decks from the game and turning them into paint-drawings? Hard-think about this. Do you really have anything about EtG to talk-bring up?

[Fippe94]

I'm pro-discord too, but there have not been a lot of problems with discussing off-topic stuff on blab before, and I don't see it being a problem in the future either.
And you don't have to act so superior just because you prefer discord to blab.

[Aves]

Trashing the game isn't really a good way to support your position, Doc. Chess has existed for hundreds/thousands of years, and people are still creating new levels of play for it. Right now you're harming the pro-Discord position a lot more than you're helping it.

As it stands, I think dawn's brought up a lot of interesting points. I can definitely see the potential in a merge if those settings are changed, but not with the way things currently are.

I'll summarize with a list of changes that I think would need to happen to satisfy torb's, mine, and others' pro-blab points:

• Redirect the current blab link to Discord. This is so we don't lose potential newcomers to an empty chat.
• Allow guests into the server, maybe restrict some channels if that's possible. Same reason as above, no guests = losing future members.
• Permanently link a forum/community identity to discord identities. This is a vital step in maintaining unity between what are otherwise separate platforms.
• Either create or expand the "Elements" subcategory of channels into ones more analogous to the current or future design of the Elements Community Forums-- Card Design, PvP Events, Tournaments, Competitions, Trials, etc. Right now the things basically look like the Off-topic section.
• If it's in here, we want it.
• Similarly, a list of common Discord Features that are explained nicely in a neat topic like the one above wouldn't go amiss.
• Restrict some of the more annoying bots from the "Elements" subcategory channels, or at least make it possible to disable them. We can do this in blab with a single button, so from the UX perspective it shouldn't be difficult to do in Discord either.

By acceding to the above, we give up on the following:

• A simple chat system. Blab is extremely easy to jump into from its simple design. Discord has a lot of features, and this makes it significantly harder to learn. Even joining as a guest takes multiple steps. Many of us feel that the interface is too cluttered. Hopefully this will be mitigated by some of the points/features requested above.
• Quick and light loading. Discord is heavier in data usage, and thus requires more loading time.
• Colored chat-- this allows for the extension of unique identity associations. It's a loss, but not significant.

[ARTHANASIOS]

Trashing the game isn't really a good way to support your position, Doc. Chess has existed for hundreds/thousands of years, and people are still creating new levels of play for it. Right now you're harming the pro-Discord position a lot more than you're helping it.

As it stands, I think dawn's brought up a lot of interesting points. I can definitely see the potential in a merge if those settings are changed, but not with the way things currently are.

I'll summarize with a list of changes that I think would need to happen to satisfy torb's, mine, and others' pro-blab points:

• Redirect the current blab link to Discord. This is so we don't lose potential newcomers to an empty chat.
• Allow guests into the server, maybe restrict some channels if that's possible. Same reason as above, no guests = losing future members.
• Permanently link a forum/community identity to discord identities. This is a vital step in maintaining unity between what are otherwise separate platforms.
• Either create or expand the "Elements" subcategory of channels into ones more analogous to the current or future design of the Elements Community Forums-- Card Design, PvP Events, Tournaments, Competitions, Trials, etc. Right now the things basically look like the Off-topic section.
• If it's in here, we want it.
• Similarly, a list of common Discord Features that are explained nicely in a neat topic like the one above wouldn't go amiss.
• Restrict some of the more annoying bots from the "Elements" subcategory channels, or at least make it possible to disable them. We can do this in blab with a single button, so from the UX perspective it shouldn't be difficult to do in Discord either.

By acceding to the above, we give up on the following:

• A simple chat system. Blab is extremely easy to jump into from its simple design. Discord has a lot of features, and this makes it significantly harder to learn. Even joining as a guest takes multiple steps. Many of us feel that the interface is too cluttered. Hopefully this will be mitigated by some of the points/features requested above.
• Quick and light loading. Discord is heavier in data usage, and thus requires more loading time.
• Colored chat-- this allows for the extension of unique identity associations. It's a loss, but not significant.

So much of these! ^

[CactusKing]

I've explained my thoughts on blab vs discord in chat, not going to reiterate them here. This is just some things Discord needs if we switch.
Everything that Aves said, and also the discord potato bot could do with a couple of improvements;
- Immediate notification of all new forum posts, not just random ones every day or so
- Notifications about new private messages
The pingjoin function is probably more challenging to implement, but if possible that would be nice too.

I'd also suggest making #Elements the default chat, with what is currently #general being in off-topic. For the sake of guests, we want to at least give the impression that everyone there is still interested in the game. Most of them aren't here to chat about random things, they want help building decks and the like.