Balancing the game

[ctuchik]

Except for sundials. They are bulls***.

[Evil Hamster]

For false god farming. For farming all the rainbow top-50, nothing beats poison

[Evil Hamster]

It has been kind of interesting to watch decks rise and fall over time!

When I first started the game- flying eagle-eye decks were king, then mono-aether, then bonewall in combination with any deck type, then rainbow, now poison... I know I skipped a few.

[Evil Hamster]

Except for sundials. They are bulls***.

They are annoying. But I'm beating decks packed with them over 90% of the time.

[Evil Hamster]

Well, Speed Rainbow has a high win percentage against Speed Poison.

Also, I was on Kong earlier, and I lost with my fully upgraded Speed Poison against a fully unupgraded mono-Dark because of Devourers. If a deck is small, around 30 cards, and has 6 Devourers, Poison has a VERY hard time. =/

And it just goes to show that every deck has a weakness and can be beaten by another type of deck.

Meaning the game is fairly well balanced

[Guardianus]

Some time ago i have read a topic about quantum pillars/towers. Someone mentioned, that they are overpowered and are giving to much quanta. I think this is the reason, why mono-decks have to be fast, so they can outdamage any rainbow, since it is at some point of the game producing so much quanta, that everything that enters hand can enter game right away.

Here are some thoughts on that subject:

1. The mono-deck uses only one element. The rainbow uses almost all (depending on the configuration).

2. Only some mono-decks has a ability to produce quanta not from the pillars/towers (p/t from now on). The Entropy has Nova (Supernova it is not producing entropy quantum since it uses the same amount that it gives), The life has rustler/leaf dragon which gives 2 life quanta but for light one (it may be useful with light mark, but in mono-deck it will not be wise), Fire has Brimstone Eater and Immolation/Cremation, Light has Ray of Light, Air has Damselfly, Darkness has Devourer/Pest. It is 6 elements. he other 6 cannot generate it's quanta the other way than from p/t.

3. All this quanta production abilities can be used by rainbow, and some others that produces quanta from other element than it's own (Firefly/Elite Firefly for example).

4. The abilities requires the sometimes other quantum than it's own. It can be produced from the mark, I agree, but there are elements that can be hard to mono-deck, from that reason. Entropy for example. Lycantrop needs death, Fallen needs Life, and the maxwell needs its own. What we get? 2 creature abilities from other mark, and only one from its own. And since mutation gives REALLY random elements for abilities it is impossible to predict which other element we will need.

5. Rainbow on the other hand gets 3 random quanta from one p/t by turn, so with 4 on the table we got 1/1 mathematical chance to get 1 point of quanta we need to use on ability.

6. We all now that mono-decks have to be fast to outdamage rainbow, since in the mid game it's quanta producing and card-drawing posibilities will win the game. That gives - mono (FAST), rainbow (STRATEGY).

And finally 7! SUNDIAL The card that every good rainbow have in the amount of 6, which can really slow down most of the mono-decks to get the game into it mid point and...look point 6.

This are only some thoughts, and I can be wrong so feel free to comment and argue on that.

Balancing all of that will need some card nerfing, elements changinga and so on. But how about the limitation to play only one p/t by turn?

1. The Sundial in the rainbow will be more balanced. It will be used to give chance to survive the start, yet it will be more challenging.

2. No more multiple card drawing per turn, cause the limitation of the hand. (No more "I will draw since i get something nice, since i can put p/t into play every time i get it").

3. Rainbow decks will still be a good strategy-based and powerfull from the mid game to the end, but more challenging to play and control, as this type of the deck should be)

4. Quantum p/t will not be overpowered as much as now since the rainbow with Sundials and Hourglasses will not have 10 of them on the table in relatively small amount of time producing 30 quanta per turn, which most of it is usefull for the deck.

What do You think about that?

If that was discussed here before, than i am sorry i must have missed that.

[Levgre]

Rainbow has by no means fallen, I'd still say it's superior to poison

[Uncle Jellyfish]

It's a novel idea, and that's why games like MtG employ it, but in Elements, restricting a single Pillar/Tower per turn would slow the game down considerably, and would make all matches longer. This would not go over well, as many players prefer to have the game fast paced. I think that an important element (not a joke) that you're forgetting to mention is the all powerful Duo-Deck.

These decks are able to not only tie down Rainbow with ease, they are much faster and there is a larger, more vast expanse of diversity between them. Usually, when I see a Mark of Time or Mark of Entropy, I usually expect a rather basic Rainbow deck, and I expect what a Rainbow deck usually has, such as Sundails, Bonewalls, Rain of Fires, Otyughs, etc., and once you know how a Rainbow deck plays, it's not too hard to exploit the strategy behind it and lock it down quickly and easily (assuming your deck is built well enough to do so).

Many of us agree that Sundials need to either be nerfed, or modified, so that they are less OP, but as of right now, we're sort of moving away from the Rainbow era and moving into the Duo-Deck era, so to speak, lol. Perhaps Trio-Decks will be the next big thing, with the release of new cards, or something.

[Uncle Jellyfish]

Well, Speed Rainbow has a high win percentage against Speed Poison.

Also, I was on Kong earlier, and I lost with my fully upgraded Speed Poison against a fully unupgraded mono-Dark because of Devourers. If a deck is small, around 30 cards, and has 6 Devourers, Poison has a VERY hard time. =/

[ctuchik]

Obviously Sundials can be countered, thats not the issue. You have to look at the power level of the card itself. It has:

*Excellent delay. Almost as good as (sometimes better than) a Phase Shield for stopping creature damage. Makes it easy to set up late game control like Empathic Bond+boneyard/ffq etc. This alone makes sundial very powerful.
*Good deck acceleration. Drawing 2 cards for cheap does wonders to speed up a deck and get a card advantage.
*It's one time quanta (or free). Lets say that again for emphasis. It's one time quanta (or free)!

And don't start about the drawback, it has no negative effect in decks that use it.

[ctuchik]

Except for sundials. They are bulls***.

They are annoying. But I'm beating decks packed with them over 90% of the time.

With poison, the only effective counter. At least let momentum go through it....

[Uncle Jellyfish]

Except for sundials. They are bulls***.

They are annoying. But I'm beating decks packed with them over 90% of the time.

With poison, the only effective counter. At least let momentum go through it....

Sundials really aren't that big of a problem for most people, once you understand how to abuse them for your own use. However, I do agree that Momentum should go through ENEMY Sundials.