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zakal

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Balancing the game https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=638.msg6441#msg6441
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:02 pm »

Sundial isn't that big of a problem, in my opinion, except for when combined with creature control+bonewall, (or to a lesser extent with firefly queen/boneyard.)  And this is only when a player is using them.  The AI seems determined to drop sundials when they are about to win from creature damage and loose the game as a result as often as not.

zakal

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Balancing the game https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=638.msg6442#msg6442
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:02 pm »

Well sorry to disobey, Ctuchik, but I will go on about the one obvious drawback of sundial.  You can't attack either while it is up, unlike phase shield.  A badly timed sundial vs Miracle, for example, can easily lead to having an easy win turn into a situation where you deck yourself out.  The AI does this kind of thing with sundials with great enthusiasm.  But, your right in that it is a very minor draw back for the power level of the card.

Evil Hamster

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Balancing the game https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=638.msg6712#msg6712
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:03 pm »

Usually with my rainbow decks, I am stuck not being able to play any cards at all until around turn 5 unless I get extremely lucky quantum generation. Granted supernovas can speed this up, but having 6 in order to be sure you get one can make for wasted draws mid- late game. Also- every card is important to support every other card- so do I play that otyugh as soon as I can or wait until i can get my queen out to soak up firebolts? Not to mention the AI just loves to firebolt my fireflys and ignore most everything else unless my otyugs are 5+ attack. A human would never make that mistake. It takes a lot of strategy to play a rainbow deck properly unlike most mono decks. It also takes a lot of strategy to play AGAINST one properly! That does NOT mean they are overpowered, just challenging.

midg3333

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Balancing the game https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=638.msg6713#msg6713
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 10:10:03 pm »

firstly, you were complaining about quantum pillars/towers being overpowered... Quantum pillars/towers are very good in the way that they give 3 quantums per turn...but the quantums are random, which slows down rainbow decks considerably in many cases. Also...you said "5. Rainbow on the other hand gets 3 random quanta from one p/t by turn, so with 4 on the table we got 1/1 mathematical chance to get 1 point of quanta we need to use on ability." This is badly flawed... you say mathematically it is a 1/1 chance, meaning 100%. If you get 12 random quantums per turn, you almost never get 1 of everything. The chances of not getting the quantum you want (if you only want 1 of it) is 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 x 11/12 (or 11/12^12) which works out to be just over 35%. That means you have just under 2/3 chance to get the quantum you want, which is a relatively good chance, i admit, but quite a ways off of 100%. Also, most cards in a rainbow deck have a relatively high cost, meaning that with 4 pillars/towers, it can take an average of 5 turns or so to play an upgraded bone wall or graveyard. Also remember that, while rainbow decks can take advantage of the best cards from every element, they also are stuck relying on some of these cards, or the card's abilities. For example, many rainbow decks will have only 1 ffq, or 1 oty, or 1 fallen druid etc. Now if you kill their only ffq, oty or druid, they will have a severe disadvantage. Likewise, if you destroy their card-drawing permanents, they probably won't draw their oty/boneyards/ffq's/druids at the same time. This is one of the major disadvantages of a rainbow deck.

all in all, yes, rainbow decks are powerful, but they are mainly designed for god-killing, where the opponents have predictable decks. In pvp, one important creature dying, or 1 permanent being destroyed can cost them the game.

 

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