An odd question about the way to make decks

[OldTrees]

There are 7 photons in the opening hand. 1 more photon is draw each turn. The deck deals 7 damage then 8 then 9 ...
The 8|8s for 8 versions assume a 7 pillar hand followed by 1 8|8 for 8 per turn. Dealing 0 damage then 8 then 16 ...
The 50|50s for 50 assumes a 7 pillar hand followed by pillars until it draws a 50|50 for 50 on the precise turn it starts with 50 quanta.

Got it, doing these calculations which is the best x|x creature?

I took shortcuts to find these results. I used the best case rather than the average case. I also chose the simple examples. (the 7|7 for 7 is harder to figure. What is the 7th card in the starting hand?)

[Wizy]

Please, do not quote this entire post.
One type of creature+pillars vs a deck of 30 pillars. At least 20,000 simulations were done per deck.

4 attack for 4

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58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 58q 8pm

Average TTW: 8.9

5 attack for 5

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4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4vc 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 4ve 8pj

Average TTW: 8.6

6 attack for 6
NOTE: opponent's hp set to 119 for this test, while I have used a creature with 7 attack, the amount of hits needed to kill the opponent equals 6 attack vs 100 hp. (17*6=102;17*7=119)

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5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 8ps

Average TTW: 8.5

7 attack for 7

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 8po

Average TTW: 8.3

8 attack for 8
NOTE: I have used a creature with an active ability but the AI never uses it on its own fresh nymphs.

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 8pk

Average TTW: 8.3

10 attack for 10

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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 8pn

Average TTW: 8.2

13 attack for 13
NOTE: opponent's hp set to 96 for this test, while I have used a creature with 12 attack, the amount of hits needed to kill the opponent equals 13 attack vs 100 hp. (8*13=104;8*12=96)

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5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 7jq 7jq 7jq 7jq 7jq 7jq 7jq 7jq 7jq 8pq

Average TTW: 8.2
Now using the most cost-effective unupgraded attackers in the game.

Photon, 1|1 for Zero

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5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 8pq

Average TTW: 9.5

Horned Frog, 3|3 for 2

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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 8pn

Average TTW: 8.9

Cockatrice, 4|4 for 3

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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 8pn

Average TTW: 8.2

Mummy, 5|3 for 4

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 52t 8pk

Average TTW: 8

Ghost of the Past, 7|4 for 6

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5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 8ps

Average TTW: 7.8

Seraph, 10|1 for 9

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5fe 5fe 5fe 5fe 5fe 5fe 5fe 5fe 5fe 5fe 8po

Average TTW: 7.8

Crimson Dragon, 12|3 for 10

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f2 5f2 8po

Average TTW: 7.8

[OldTrees]

Please, do not quote this entire post.
One type of creature+pillars vs a deck of 30 pillars. At least 20,000 simulations were done per deck.

How did you determine how many of each creature to use?

[Wizy]

Please, do not quote this entire post.
One type of creature+pillars vs a deck of 30 pillars. At least 20,000 simulations were done per deck.

How did you determine how many of each creature to use?

Doing 1,000 simulations with each possible combination (except the ones that are obviously inefficient)
If the 2 best combinations are too close to each other, then I do 10,000 for each.
Too much free time.

[eaglgenes101]

What's the margin for "Too Close"? 0.1 turns?

[OldTrees]

Please, do not quote this entire post.
One type of creature+pillars vs a deck of 30 pillars. At least 20,000 simulations were done per deck.

How did you determine how many of each creature to use?

Doing 1,000 simulations with each possible combination (except the ones that are obviously inefficient)
If the 2 best combinations are too close to each other, then I do 10,000 for each.
Too much free time.

I like your rigor.
+85 rep

What are your conclusions?

[Wizy]

zomg 85 exp in one kill, lvld up twice

too close=about 0.1~0.2
Anyway shortly after doing it, I have noticed that even with so many runs there is still some >0.1 variance
I may do 10,000 and get 8.1, then another 10,000 with the exact same deck and get 8.2
There should be a way to do it with maths but it's insanely complicated for my skills. x% chances of having x% chances of having x% chances ...  of having x% chances of drawing x card. :/

conclusions:
Vanilla creatures with less than 5 attack are the least efficient. They are not worth a card space in a deck unless they have some synergy with other cards in the deck such as adren/BE/immo or even hourglass/SoBe or is played by an AI with double draw.

Mummy and GotP are the most efficient unupped vanillas in the game (not that an extensive test was needed to deduce this tho o.o), although they are not trully vanillas since they have pasive abilities.

While in theory the big hitters (9+atk) are the most cost-effective, in practice they end up being worse if they are stoped/killed by single-target CC compared to medium hitters being targeted by those CC.
Of the cards in game, IMO the most effective big hitter is Emerald Dragon, resistant to most damage CC. Well this is more meta-related, i'm digressing.

In short, medium hitters in the range of 5-7 atk are generally the most effective vanillas.

I was going to say one more thing, but it has vanished from my mind, the world will never know.

[furballdn]

Which cards are most efficient upped then?

[Wizy]

I plan to use these test subjects, tell me if i'm missing any or I should use another instead.

quanta - creature - attack
0 - damselfy - 2
2 - giant frog - 5
3 - flesh recluse - 6
4 - phase recluse - 7
7 - GotP Upd - 9
8 - E. shrieker - 10
9 - seraph - 12
12 - ruby dragon - 15
extras:
3 - scorpion - 2+venom
5 - puffer fish - 3+venom

Should I use pillars or towers (upd)? Towers are more appropiate but with pillars they can be compared to the unupped ones. Or I do both.

[furballdn]

Let me see what I can recommend for costs.
0 - ball lightning, damsel fly
1 - elite deja vu
2 - frog, minor phoenix
3 - cockatrice, flesh recluse, scorpion (graboid allowed?)
4 - phase recluse, steel golem (are peggy and wyrm allowed?)
5 - Elite charger, pufferfish, elite golem
6 - Archangel
7 - Ghost of the past
8 - Elite shrieker (Are nymphs allowed? Time, aether, and death look tempting)
9 - Seraph
10 - Ivory dragon
11 - Arctic dragon
12 - Ruby dragon
13 - Light dragon
14 - Elite phase dragon

I'd say use towers since this is an upped environment, but it'd also be nice to see pillars being used so speed and upgraded creatures can be compared.

[Wizy]

MP, cockratice, steel golem, E.charger, archangel, nymphs, non-ruby dragons. In terms of quanta-attack are strictly inferior to others, while for example chargers might be one of the most effective attackers due to momentum, vs a deck of only pillars they will be slower than phase recluses. I'll skip these for now.
E.deja vu, E.graboid,E. pegasus/wyrm, some nymphs. Using their abilities, are a bit tricky in the simulator with the AI derpness, I'll try later.

[Wizy]

Opponent's deck:

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Time of my Life aka counting the number of turns until my death

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5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 5rg 8ps

Damselfly 2|1 for Zero

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7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 8pr

Average TTW: 5.5 (either 5 or 6, depending on the coin toss)

Giant Frog, 5|3 for 2

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7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 8pn

Average TTW: 6.5

Flesh Recluse, 6|3 for 3

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710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 713 713 713 713 713 713 713 713 713 713 713 713 8pk

Average TTW: 6.305 (100,000 games)

Phase Recluse, 7|2 for 4

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808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 80g 8pu

Average TTW: 6.31 (100,000 games)

Ghost of the Past (upgraded), 9|4 for 7

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NOTES: The AI refuses to play some of them and even discards them, I had to use a different creature.
Opponent's hp set to 84 for this test, while I have used a creature with 7 attack, the amount of hits needed to kill the opponent equals to 9 attack vs 100 hp. (12*7=84;12*9=108)

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7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7qe 7qe 7qe 7qe 7qe 7qe 7qe 7qe 7qe 7qe 8ps

Deck used instead: (84hp)

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7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 8po

Average TTW: 7.1

Elite Shrieker, 10|4 for 8

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NOTES: The AI activates their ability (wich halves their attack), I had to use a different creature.
Opponent's hp set to 80 for this test, while I have used a creature with 8 attack, the amount of hits needed to kill the opponent equals to 10 attack vs 100 hp. (10*8=80;10*10=100)

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778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 778 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 77h 8pm

Deck used instead: (80hp)

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NOTE: I have used a creature with an active ability but the AI never uses it on its own fresh nymphs.

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710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 710 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 71k 8pk

Average TTW: 6.6

Seraph (upgraded), 12|1 for 9

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7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 7du 8po

Average TTW: 6.8

Ruby Dragon, 15|2 for 12

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7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7di 7di 7di 7di 7di 7di 7di 7di 7di 8po

Average TTW: 6.75
Extras:

Ball Lightning 5|0 for Zero. Dies after attacking.

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809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 809 8pu

Average TTW: 13.5 (either 13 or 14, depending on the coin toss)

Scorpion 2|2 + Venom for 2 . Adds 1 poison damage to each attack.

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7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 7ao 8pn

Average TTW: 7.8

To be done: Puffer Fish, Unstable Gas?

I will not do any more tests for now, they take some time. The other creatures are of lesser importance for this matter.

Failed tests:
Elite Deja vu - AI doesn't use their ability unless it has excess of
Elite Wyrm/Pegasus, Golden/Fire Nymphs - AI doesn't activate their ability if doing so would leave it with 0 related quanta.
Elite Graboid - Same as above plus AI activates Shrieker's burrow.

Corrected photons TTW in the other post. (9 if the opponent wins the coin toss)