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Offline catalyzeme

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284222#msg284222
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2011, 11:54:43 pm »
There should be an option for Other as well, just to be fair.

That's probably true, but Other really hasn't had a problem with staying stagnant. I think in the time I've been playing, Other has gotten the most new cards (3 while I've been playing, tied with Gravity and Darkness: SoR, Shortbow, Shield) and I imagine that will keep up. It wouldn't surprise me to see another Shard in the next one or two updates. I personally think Other is doing fine :)

I think both :fire and :water could use a permanent, now that people have mentioned it. Both of them only have a single shield and their weapon (if you discount the almost never used Flooding). I would love to see either of them get another shield or an interesting permanent.

As for :aether, I understand people wanting to buff it as a mono, but I don't think aether is designed to be that way. Aether seems designed to use other elements (PU, Fractal, Mindgate). Those are three staple cards that also expand your deck outside of what you just actively put into it. I think Aether could use a mono-oriented card, although the last thing it needs is another duo/rainbow support card. I think more of my decks use Aether than any other element. At the same time, a new cheap Aether creature (for example) shouldn't be as strong as other elements cheap creatures. I don't think it would be in the spirit of Aether. I think a relatively weak creature that introduced a new Aether ability (like chance for spells/abilities to miss it) would be a good addition.

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284231#msg284231
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2011, 12:08:10 am »
As for :aether, I understand people wanting to buff it as a mono, but I don't think aether is designed to be that way. Aether seems designed to use other elements (PU, Fractal, Mindgate). Those are three staple cards that also expand your deck outside of what you just actively put into it. I think Aether could use a mono-oriented card, although the last thing it needs is another duo/rainbow support card. I think more of my decks use Aether than any other element. At the same time, a new cheap Aether creature (for example) shouldn't be as strong as other elements cheap creatures. I don't think it would be in the spirit of Aether. I think a relatively weak creature that introduced a new Aether ability (like chance for spells/abilities to miss it) would be a good addition.
i think all elements should be able to rush successfully otherwise there's no real point.

Offline Ryli

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284233#msg284233
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2011, 12:15:25 am »
Fire and Water, I think. It'd be nice if all elements had a bunch of new cards, but I think these 2 need them the most.

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284235#msg284235
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2011, 12:17:14 am »
i want the gem and the avatar series to come up into the game. they would be perfect no?

Offline catalyzeme

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284238#msg284238
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2011, 12:23:23 am »
i think all elements should be able to rush successfully otherwise there's no real point.
I disagree, but if it were the case, I think gravity would need a creature more than Aether. Aether's Phase Recluse is a great rushing card, although they don't have much in the way of unupgraded. People still do put together Immortal rushes that have success, since they make up for a lack of speed by being hard to kill. Gravity, though, really only has Chargers as a remotely decent rushing card. It's ok, but not great, upgraded, and pretty bad for rushing unupgraded.

But I don't think strong rushing cards is a trait all the elements need. I don't think all the elements should be equal in ANY strategy. You're saying that all the elements need to be good at this one thing or else there's no point, which seems completely opposite to me. What's the point in having 12 elements if we start making them all strategically equal?

Offline Atico

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284598#msg284598
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2011, 10:55:21 am »
This poll hasn't got sense, because a lot of players choose Elements which they play...
For example  :fire - which card this elements needs? Fire has got the best PC, fantastic CC (RE, FL), buffing creature (RE), healing from SoG, dragon with the best attack in game, growing creatures and 3 ways to gain mana (Cremation, BA and Pillars)...  Which elements is so complete as fire?

I think that it will be better to change cards which we have in bazaar (for example like buffing Nightmare) than creating new cards with a small using. New quests, pets, top500 - this changes makes the game funnier than new cards ;)

But if I want to vote I think that Air and Water needs buffing. But maybe it shouldn't be doing by new cards - we can make for example airborne skill much better and this will be better buff than new cards.

Offline Kuroaitou

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284618#msg284618
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2011, 12:17:50 pm »
This poll hasn't got sense, because a lot of players choose Elements which they play...
For example  :fire - which card this elements needs? Fire has got the best PC, fantastic CC (RE, FL), buffing creature (RE), healing from SoG, dragon with the best attack in game, growing creatures and 3 ways to gain mana (Cremation, BA and Pillars)...  Which elements is so complete as fire?
In regards to the highlighted part, you -really- can't just toss in 'Other' cards (especially Shards!) into Fire's arsenal. Yes, Fire Stall is bad, but the Shard of Gratitude isn't a card in the Fire element.

I think that while their ludicrously cheap PC and multiple forms of CC (Rage Elixir, Fire Lance, Rain of Fire, Fire Buckler, 'Cremation' if you have to deal with Malignant Cells on your board, etc.) make them truly complete, they do need some sort of 'filler blah' card just so that they're not completely screwed over in the inventory department. Aether has the same issue, but also have holes (mainly, creature diversity like I stated before), so obviously it would make sense why a new card for them would be beneficial.

I'll give out some more accurate lists of what I think are the more dominant elements in terms of their strength from creatures and card changes/mechanics, to the most weakest ones and the ones with the least amount of changes so far:

(Dominant) Tier 1  :fire :entropy
(Strong) Tier 2 :earth :darkness :gravity :light
(Satisfactory) Tier 3  :death :aether :air :time
(Poor) Tier 4  :life
(Inferior) Tier 5 :water

(Dominant) Tier 1  :fire :entropy :earth
(Strong) Tier 2  :darkness :air
(Satisfactory) Tier 3  :gravity :time :death :light
(Poor) Tier 4  :water :life
(Inferior) Tier 5 :aether

(Dominant) Tier 1  :death :gravity :light
(Strong) Tier 2  :darkness :earth
(Satisfactory) Tier 3  :air :entropy :time
(Poor) Tier 4 :water :life
(Inferior) Tier 5  :aether :fire

Offline Atico

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284647#msg284647
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2011, 01:30:38 pm »
I mentioned SoG because it is very popular card in FireLances decks ;) Fire couldn't have other forms of healing, so I don't know which new card a lot of people want... We can't make one of the element better than others :)

Water and/or Air needs "normal PC". Duo Icebolt+Shockwave for only weapons isn't a PC. It is a nice add, but not PC. I think that Tornado will be nice here. Life and Light shouldn't have PC (I play a lot of Light, but I know that it won't be fair giving for them PC).

Aether and new cards...? Aether needs change, simple buffing, not new cards.

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284659#msg284659
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2011, 01:46:28 pm »
(Dominant) Tier 1  :fire :entropy
(Strong) Tier 2 :earth :darkness :gravity :light
(Satisfactory) Tier 3  :death :aether :air :time
(Poor) Tier 4  :life
(Inferior) Tier 5 :water

(Dominant) Tier 1  :fire :entropy :earth
(Strong) Tier 2  :darkness :air
(Satisfactory) Tier 3  :gravity :time :death :light
(Poor) Tier 4  :water :life
(Inferior) Tier 5 :aether

(Dominant) Tier 1  :death :gravity :light
(Strong) Tier 2  :darkness :earth
(Satisfactory) Tier 3  :air :entropy :time
(Poor) Tier 4 :water :life
(Inferior) Tier 5  :aether :fire
this is proof of water needing a HUGE boost. it has no pc, at least 3 dud cards (trident, flooding etc...), 1 really good rushing creature, and a lot of random rubbish. I LOVE WATER AND I WANT IT CHANGED!!!

Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg284733#msg284733
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2011, 04:28:56 pm »
Kuro's lists are interesting for sure but I can't say I agree. The strength listing is only true in 50%-required PvP, for example. Every element that is defensive before offensive (:fire and :entropy being the worst in this regard) is superior in PvAI.

Elements is a remarkably balanced game. For at least HALF of the cards in every single element there is a decent high-level deck that players both enjoy using and actually do use that incorporates them. It's just not really possible to encapsulate the game balance correctly in such a listing: for example, Kuro has :life near the bottom in every category ... but it's probably the single most popular element nonetheless. It's far from "weak."

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285065#msg285065
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2011, 12:30:22 am »
Water and/or Air needs "normal PC".
For water, how about something like Rust / Corrode (maybe have this be a delayed effect even, causing a rust counter to be added each turn and destroy it when it has 3 counters?  And could even have it spread to a random new target after each time the previous one is destroyed.)

Offline Dragoon1140

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg285071#msg285071
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2011, 12:37:46 am »
Without even reading the rest of the thread, I'm surprised there aren't more votes for Earth.  Earth doesn't just need a card, it requires a card, or at least coming to the point of being so.  I wouldn't mind if the new card is similar to Purple Kitty in terms of impact to the game, but something is better than nothing for many patches in a row.  I agree with Fire, but Earth needs some love too.
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