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Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283725#msg283725
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 08:57:57 am »
I don't disagree that :fire is a powerful element, but I do think it could use another card.

Most other elements have recently received a new card that adds a new, often fun, mechanic -- and :fire should get one too. It doesn't have to be especially powerful; it just should be something that adds a new dimension. Heck, if it's designed properly it could actually help a different element more by being an obvious combo card with that element. To take a recent example: Ghost of the Past might be a :time card, but it's greatest effect is probably on the :darkness card Nightmare and that card's overall usability.

Offline xdude

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283727#msg283727
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 09:06:25 am »
Personally, I think :light could do with some more. Their cards are all very solid, but they are lacking in some inventive ones. There isn't anything that particularly stands out from the rest of the game in terms of interesting mechanics.
Hope? Solar Buckler?
From time to time HL?
...But yes, I agree some CC would actually be nice.
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Offline Sir ValimontTopic starter

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283732#msg283732
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 09:19:39 am »
Personally, I think :light could do with some more. Their cards are all very solid, but they are lacking in some inventive ones. There isn't anything that particularly stands out from the rest of the game in terms of interesting mechanics.
Hope? Solar Buckler?
From time to time HL?
...But yes, I agree some CC would actually be nice.
Add to that both new cards. Crusader = a completely new and interesting mechanic. Sanctuary = The first and only card with defense against certain types of attacks.

Not to be contrary but to be perfectly honest :light is the very last element I would choose.

Offline Jappert

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283733#msg283733
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2011, 09:26:44 am »
I can't believe noone voted :death.

Isn't it the element with the least ammount of cards? I just heared someone claim that, didn't actually bother to count :D

Offline xdude

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283734#msg283734
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2011, 09:28:06 am »
I can't believe noone voted :death.

Isn't it the element with the least ammount of cards? I just heared someone claim that, didn't actually bother to count :D
....Try most.
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Offline TheonlyrealBeef

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283736#msg283736
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2011, 09:31:46 am »
Voted Darkness and Water.

Darkness, well duh, everyone wants more cards for her/his favorite element :)
And Water could really use it IMO.

Offline catalyzeme

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283738#msg283738
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2011, 09:35:23 am »
While I voted Fire, I definitely can see why Water is winning. I think it might be the element I would be least interested in running by itself. Maybe Time as well, but Time's drawing power makes it so powerful and the maybe best element to feature in a rainbow. I can't say exactly what Water needs though. Maybe just anything usable.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283739#msg283739
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2011, 09:46:40 am »
Lol, water is my favorite mono xD

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283740#msg283740
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2011, 09:49:58 am »
My answer is simple: elements that have least cards, need new cards the most.

I don't see the logic behind giving new cards to elements that already have a lot of cards, just because they somehow "need" new cards. Each element should have the same size card pool in deckbuilding. In my opinion the difference in total card amounts per element should never be more than 1 card.

Offline Pineapple

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283741#msg283741
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 09:55:27 am »
My answer is simple: elements that have least cards, need new cards the most.

I don't see the logic behind giving new cards to elements that already have a lot of cards, just because they somehow "need" new cards. Each element should have the same size card pool in deckbuilding. In my opinion the difference in total card amounts per element should never be more than 1 card.
But number of cards isn't everything.
Compare a small cardpool of permanent control, several high-attack creatures, creature control, and alternative quanta generation compared to large a cardpool of several forms of creature control and maybe 1-2 creatures with iffy attack-cost ratios.

The large cardpool definitely "needs" more cards to make it able to do even half as much as the small cardpool can.
If not to give more versatility, why bother fleshing out an element at all?

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283744#msg283744
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 10:17:26 am »
Aether hands down needs new cards. 'Overpowered' Fractal combos aside, it's the one with the fewest amount of creatures, making it overly 1-dimensional as an element when it comes to offensive tactics (Immortal being the prime culprit of their creature problem when it's compared to Phase Dragon [tougher stats/bypass Wings] and Phase Spider [greater utility and attack-cost ratio]). Despite all those fancy spells and permanents, Aether creatures are pretty boring, and it'd be nice for them to get a card in that category.

Everything else to me is a toss-up between "semi-desperate" and "unnecessary".


 :aether - 15
 :air - 16
 :darkness - 17
 :death - 18
 :earth - 17
 :entropy - 17
 :fire - 15
 :gravity - 17
 :life - 16
 :light - 17
 :time - 17
 :water - 17
Fire is a strong element, but despite its major strengths (or 'exploits', in my opinion), I suppose it really should get a new card A.S.A.P. Many elements had recent changes to their older cards to improve their versatility and strength ( :darkness, :death, :light), while others got cards that can dynamically support them ( :air, :earth, :gravity, :life). A couple of elements are still a bit short on strength level ( :time, :water), but perhaps a few tweaks may be in order to improve those elements, rather than adding more cards.


TL;DR - Entropy and Fire are strong as is, but Fire does have the worst card pool quantity wise, whereas Water is worst quality wise. Aether needs cards period. All other elements either got cards or major changes to give them an awesome chance in War 3 hopefully.

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Re: After all the new cards in 1.27, which element now needs a new card the most? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=22327.msg283750#msg283750
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 10:37:35 am »
My answer is simple: elements that have least cards, need new cards the most.

I don't see the logic behind giving new cards to elements that already have a lot of cards, just because they somehow "need" new cards. Each element should have the same size card pool in deckbuilding. In my opinion the difference in total card amounts per element should never be more than 1 card.
But number of cards isn't everything.
Compare a small cardpool of permanent control, several high-attack creatures, creature control, and alternative quanta generation compared to large a cardpool of several forms of creature control and maybe 1-2 creatures with iffy attack-cost ratios.

The large cardpool definitely "needs" more cards to make it able to do even half as much as the small cardpool can.
If not to give more versatility, why bother fleshing out an element at all?
You are assuming that all elements need to be totally balanced in a 1vs.1 situation. That's not the case. Zanz has purposely made some elements strong on one area, and weak on another, meaning there will be some rock-paper-scissors when fighting with mono-decks. If one element could do everything, there would be very little point in even using the other elements. Balancing all 12 unique elements so that they are in perfect balance when fighting other elements using mono-decks, is pretty much impossible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but using your logic, and element that had a total of 30 cards, but who lost to an element that had 20 cards in 1vs.1 situation, should get more cards because they "need" them. I see it differently. The issue can be fixed using nerfing and buffing, not giving the weaker element new cards.

I'm happy every time new cards get announced, and I don't have strong feelings over which element gets them. But if I could choose, I would prefer if all elements had the equal number of cards, and each (big) update would add 1 new card to each element. That's easier said than done of course.

 

anything
blarg: