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Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg25909#msg25909
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2010, 02:39:57 am »
Zanz is the developer. So, obviously, in the game he is God. The True God. In relation to your story, he could be the original being in the universe, or what's left of him after he split.

It doesn't have to be his avatar; it can be himself.

All elementals descend from Zanzarino; they all used to be a part of him. So any elemental that emerges triumphant over Zanzarino will get to re-merge with him and gain his power, thus becoming the new God.

He is the final boss because he is the True God, and the strongest AI you can ever hope to face. In my mind he's someone with 500 HP, infinite quanta, and infinite cards. Of course, when you become strong enough to face Zanzarino and not get annihilated to pure quanta just by being in his presence, that makes you already stronger than most False Gods. In my mind, you gain the power of a FG when you fight Zanzarino.

You said the original being is lonely. Maybe he's tired of everything, and he wants to pass his mantle to another being (one of his children). But by themselves the elementals can never surpass him, so he gives pieces of the future to elementals to see who is worthy.

I thought you'd be more imaginative... Wouldn't all people assume that Zanz is the uber creator god?  :P
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg25914#msg25914
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2010, 02:46:14 am »
And as the great one split himself, and his work was complete, he heard a laughter from behind him.  He had never been alone, there had always been one, watching.  This man, a happy looking fellow, had malice hidden deep within his bones.  He spread the children of the great one to great warlords, who used them to wage war on each other for sport and money.  He helped some become neigh gods, and helped others take these gods down.  He was all knowing, had infinite amounts of power, and was content to watch the world rip itself apart.  And so, as the great one's lands descended into war, the oracle just laughed his hearty laugh, and waited silently once more.

I think it's okay, but critique is welcome.

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg26113#msg26113
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2010, 08:27:06 pm »
Zanz is the developer. So, obviously, in the game he is God. The True God. In relation to your story, he could be the original being in the universe, or what's left of him after he split.
Everything is what is left of him after he split though, unless you are saying that the split was unsuccessful and a large part of him did not leave at all. In which case it would not be one being the mind would still be fragmented within Zanz there would just be one being holding them all together.

It doesn't have to be his avatar; it can be himself.
Better.

All elementals descend from Zanzarino; they all used to be a part of him. So any elemental that emerges triumphant over Zanzarino will get to re-merge with him and gain his power, thus becoming the new God.
A loop you say? An elemental re-merging with him makes sense but the way you say "gets to" makes it sound too much like a prize or a reward. Remember the Elementals originally split precisely to escape from being part of this being. Why would they be so eager to re-join after defeating him? A re-merge would have to be against their will and his too.

He is the final boss because he is the True God, and the strongest AI you can ever hope to face. In my mind he's someone with 500 HP, infinite quanta, and infinite cards. Of course, when you become strong enough to face Zanzarino and not get annihilated to pure quanta just by being in his presence, that makes you already stronger than most False Gods. In my mind, you gain the power of a FG when you fight Zanzarino.
This is fine of course but is kind of seperate from the story.

You said the original being is lonely. Maybe he's tired of everything, and he wants to pass his mantle to another being (one of his children). But by themselves the elementals can never surpass him, so he gives pieces of the future to elementals to see who is worthy.
Wishing the elementals to surpass him makes sense. But what do you mean by "gives pieces of the future to see who is worthy"?

I thought you'd be more imaginative... Wouldn't all people assume that Zanz is the uber creator god?  :P
This was your idea not mine. I want the fundamentals to come from you and not have large parts of it written for you. I would rather challenge and question you so you must explain it more thoroughly then simply fill in the gaps myself and end up going against your idea in the process. The problem with somebody else adding things too early in the process is that it can ruin what you had in your head but haven't fully translated intow rods yet.

And as the great one split himself, and his work was complete, he heard a laughter from behind him.  He had never been alone, there had always been one, watching.  This man, a happy looking fellow, had malice hidden deep within his bones.  He spread the children of the great one to great warlords, who used them to wage war on each other for sport and money.  He helped some become neigh gods, and helped others take these gods down.  He was all knowing, had infinite amounts of power, and was content to watch the world rip itself apart.  And so, as the great one's lands descended into war, the oracle just laughed his hearty laugh, and waited silently once more.

I think it's okay, but critique is welcome.
It's not bad at all.

I would suggest two things.

First should come a reason for why or indeed how the Oracle kept himself hidden from the first being.

Second I would remove the malice clause. Is it Malice? It puts me in mind of a child watching ants fight, he enjoys the turmoil of something smaller then himself and to do so is not noble but is it really evil? It is more thoughtless and dismissive, we often do not care about things far smaller then ourselves. We step on ants, and spray flies with chemicals and destroy spiders webs. Would Gods not view smaller beings with the same indifference? 

The Oracle finds great amusement and perhaps even draws his own strength from the conflict and turmoil, using it to feed himself and this may be why he would give power to the elementals. (and also maybe why he did not announce his presence to the first being in order to grow from it's problems)

I haven't added any more to the original post in a good while. Been kinda busy, bear with me I haven;t abandoned it or anyway. It'll be finished before too long.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg26281#msg26281
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2010, 04:56:36 am »
Quote
A loop you say? An elemental re-merging with him makes sense but the way you say "gets to" makes it sound too much like a prize or a reward. Remember the Elementals originally split precisely to escape from being part of this being. Why would they be so eager to re-join after defeating him? A re-merge would have to be against their will and his too.
An elemental re-merging with Zanz would give that particular elemental unlimited power and thus allowing him to rule over all other elementals.

But of course, this is your story, and you don't have to use my ideas. Actually, I'd prefer if you don't, because I am going to use that idea in my own story. Just use Gl1tch's idea, although I don't exactly like the idea of someone so exponentially more powerful than the all-powerful one.

I think I finally found someone who's even more rational than myself...

To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg26468#msg26468
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2010, 01:24:18 am »
An elemental re-merging with Zanz would give that particular elemental unlimited power and thus allowing him to rule over all other elementals.
And why would they want or even care about that? What does that even mean? Elementals already have plenty of power from any perspective, a struggle for more power is petty and foolish. They had almost nothing but power before when they were one and it destroyed them. What would more power even give an Elemental? To rule over the other elementals? Hooray I rule, what do I rule? I rule nothing I simply proved I was more powerful yes but more importantly that I was more greedy and base.

I want to get as far away as possible from connecting Elementals with the follies of Humans. Like greed and selfless desire for dominance. They're supposed to be higher beings and I hate how everyone's perception of higher beings only makes them higher in strength, never in purpose or intent. They should be higher emotionally and socially too. The elementals simply want to exist, only in rare and specific cases will they fight something that is not a threat to that existence.

I think I finally found someone who's even more rational than myself...
I don't get it...

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg26522#msg26522
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2010, 04:29:12 am »
If you separate the elementals completely away from human emotions and desires, then I cannot think of a reason why they should exist. What is the purpose of their existence? I have been pondering the meaning of human life for a long while now, and I never figured out. We humans only exist to sate our needs, needs that are ingrained to the very foundations of our psyches and thus have no meanings, causes or explanations. We only live to satisfy those needs, and for all I know we could only be the entertainment or experimental subjects of some higher beings whom we cannot hope to understand. If you sever the elementals from the base human needs, then I see no reason for them to even exist; why would they even want to exist? What can possibly be accomplished by their existence. Unless you ingrain the need to simply exist into their psyches, just like the humans.

Oh, and you've never mentioned the existence of humans in your story. In my story, for all intents and purposes the elementals are the equivalents of humans.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg26530#msg26530
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2010, 05:22:16 am »
If you separate the elementals completely away from human emotions and desires, then I cannot think of a reason why they should exist.
Why do Dogs exist? Why do Plants exist? I did not say they had no emotions or desires whatsoever. Just that they cannot be understood by or compared to Human emotions. They are not the same although many things might be similar enough are entirely different for them to be beyond empathy.

I have been pondering the meaning of human life for a long while now,
It's good to know we've got a man on the job.

If you sever the elementals from the base human needs, then I see no reason for them to even exist;
Unless you ingrain the need to simply exist into their psyches, just like the humans.
A shared desire to exist is a very small thing. You think it makes them similar to Humans? Would it mean they share other desires? I wouldn't say so, you spoke of things like wishing for power for powers sake, wishing to rule etc in my view of them they do not share these things.

Oh, and you've never mentioned the existence of humans in your story. In my story, for all intents and purposes the elementals are the equivalents of humans.
This makes a lot of what you said earlier make more sense. But the notion of Elementals and Humans being equivalents makes very little sense by itself.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg26532#msg26532
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2010, 05:45:30 am »
You haven't answered my question. Why do elementals exist? Do they just exist for the sake of existence? Do they have any purpose? Don't just say "they cannot be understood by humans"; if you want to write a story about them, you need to understand them.

Quote
But the notion of Elementals and Humans being equivalents makes very little sense by itself.
How does it not? In our world humans dominate all other beings. In Elements elementals dominate all other beings. In the world of Elements, elementals are the norm, instead of humans.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg26547#msg26547
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2010, 08:03:42 am »
Why do elementals exist? Do they just exist for the sake of existence?
I have already said that they do, as does everything that exists. You didn't answer my question. How does merely wishing to exist suddenly make them on par with Humans in any other emotional level?

How does it not? In our world humans dominate all other beings. In Elements elementals dominate all other beings. In the world of Elements, elementals are the norm, instead of humans.
Does being the pre-eminent species alone make them the equivalents of Humans? Were the dinosaurs the equivalent of Humans?

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg26748#msg26748
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2010, 04:36:40 am »
Quote
Does being the pre-eminent species alone make them the equivalents of Humans? Were the dinosaurs the equivalent of Humans?
Yes, and yes. In the aspect of dominance over other species, elementals are the equivalent of humans. Their places in the world are the same as the humans right now. And remember that I said it was only in my story that the elementals were the equivalent of humans.

Let me rephrase my question. What does an average elemental want? If it simply wants to exist, then there will be no purpose to his existence, because there would be no development and growth. If the elementals don't want anything, then there is nothing that drives your story forward.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg27479#msg27479
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2010, 05:09:29 am »
Yes, and yes. In the aspect of dominance over other species, elementals are the equivalent of humans. Their places in the world are the same as the humans right now. And remember that I said it was only in my story that the elementals were the equivalent of humans.
But this began from you comparing them to Humans emotionally remember? When I asked how you thought you could compare them to Humans in this way to respond that in dominance they are alike is rather illogical. But it doesn't really matter, forget it.

Let me rephrase my question. What does an average elemental want? If it simply wants to exist, then there will be no purpose to his existence, because there would be no development and growth. If the elementals don't want anything, then there is nothing that drives your story forward.
All in good time darling. Let me finish it. Motive will indeed be accounted for, I must ask out of interest though what do they want in your story and crucially what within your story shows this?

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: A Re-envisioning of the Elements Fan based Story. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=2850.msg27485#msg27485
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2010, 06:00:50 am »
Quote
I must ask out of interest though what do they want in your story and crucially what within your story shows this?
My story is far from finished. The version I submitted was only the rough draft. I have yet to explain the origin of electrums and the Oracle.

But to answer your question, elementals want the same thing as humans do in our universe. You can tell by the False Gods, who desired more power and control over other elementals. Remember that the predominant, intelligent species in Elements are not humans, but elementals. There are no humans in my version of Elements.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

 

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