What is the Game Turning Into?

[Rutarete]

The game is turning more into something with more parts of it set in stone. Ex. Bans. I think it's happening because of personal satisfaction. I'll bring my quote later about satisfaction (or someone can do it for me). SO while Satisfaction is key to the game, people are twisting it like words in court, and the result is that list of cards to be nerfed/buffed.

[BluePriest]

People are more likely to judge stall cards to be OP based on intuition. Rush cards are deemed OP only by mathematical comparisons or by vast discrepancies.

SoG is probably OP. (I say this because I think that Sanctuary hit the right balance 4 healing for 3 |2 [with quanta protection being an additional +1 |+1 ])
In the past this was demonstrated through the pvp winners. SoG has since been nerfed slightly. I think that SoG is a valuable resource to stall decks and (as much as I hate saying this due to thematic reasons) probably is necessary in some form to reduce the rush advantage.

So we have a card that was OP, probably still is OP but would be a tremendous asset to the pvp field when balanced.
Conclusion: Balance it.
Options:
Verify if and how much it is still OPed.
Determine if a nerfed version would be balanced. (like players that use it must forfeit if their life drops below the sum of the number of turns per SoG used. This would test regeneration 4 instead of 5)
Play with it in pvp tournaments and try to find viable counters to it.

SoG is a problem. So balance it pvpers. Find solutions in the metagame or identify what alternative version would be balanced. Perhaps use sanctuary as a test run considering it costs more(3 vs 3 ) than SoG and heals less.

I love our community's involvement in the card design realm, as it has shown to be a great inspiration to Zanz's creative genius and impetus. However, I am concerned about how some aspects of card design have turned into a science and less of a creative design process. While it is definitely possible to assess a card's balance potential based on hard statistics of actual cards in the game, designing potential cards requires innovation, something that cannot be measured by quantum cost or base creature stats. Status quo should never be the goal with a potential card idea. I would encourage all card idea enthusiasts to jump out of their own comfort zone, take a deep breath, and work on designing cards that don't fit any mold, formula, or archetype. Take an Elements environmental scan of sorts, and design cards that fill needs and offer layers of utility. Remember, complexity doesn't have to be complicated - sometimes less is more.

I seriously doubt Zanz has some super method that he uses to determine card balance. In fact, I am sure of it. Zanz has said himself that he puts cards in the beta stage too strong, and intentionally nerfs them accordingly. He doesnt use some secret formula that we have to figure out. Dont get me wrong, it is still useful, however, it is far from being the rule.

One of the big problems of this is that it puts elements in a box. People try to keep it in that box

[OldTrees]

People are more likely to judge stall cards to be OP based on intuition. Rush cards are deemed OP only by mathematical comparisons or by vast discrepancies.

SoG is probably OP. (I say this because I think that Sanctuary hit the right balance 4 healing for 3 |2 [with quanta protection being an additional +1 |+1 ])
In the past this was demonstrated through the pvp winners. SoG has since been nerfed slightly. I think that SoG is a valuable resource to stall decks and (as much as I hate saying this due to thematic reasons) probably is necessary in some form to reduce the rush advantage.

So we have a card that was OP, probably still is OP but would be a tremendous asset to the pvp field when balanced.
Conclusion: Balance it.
Options:
Verify if and how much it is still OPed.
Determine if a nerfed version would be balanced. (like players that use it must forfeit if their life drops below the sum of the number of turns per SoG used. This would test regeneration 4 instead of 5)
Play with it in pvp tournaments and try to find viable counters to it.

SoG is a problem. So balance it pvpers. Find solutions in the metagame or identify what alternative version would be balanced. Perhaps use sanctuary as a test run considering it costs more(3 vs 3 ) than SoG and heals less.

I love our community's involvement in the card design realm, as it has shown to be a great inspiration to Zanz's creative genius and impetus. However, I am concerned about how some aspects of card design have turned into a science and less of a creative design process. While it is definitely possible to assess a card's balance potential based on hard statistics of actual cards in the game, designing potential cards requires innovation, something that cannot be measured by quantum cost or base creature stats. Status quo should never be the goal with a potential card idea. I would encourage all card idea enthusiasts to jump out of their own comfort zone, take a deep breath, and work on designing cards that don't fit any mold, formula, or archetype. Take an Elements environmental scan of sorts, and design cards that fill needs and offer layers of utility. Remember, complexity doesn't have to be complicated - sometimes less is more.

I seriously doubt Zanz has some super method that he uses to determine card balance. In fact, I am sure of it. Zanz has said himself that he puts cards in the beta stage too strong, and intentionally nerfs them accordingly. He doesnt use some secret formula that we have to figure out. Dont get me wrong, it is still useful, however, it is far from being the rule.

One of the big problems of this is that it puts elements in a box. People try to keep it in that box

The formula approach of mine is never a final step. It is more of a shortcut to aim at the right target prior to playtesting.

[BluePriest]

Thats where I get my box comment though. Shortcuts can often take people off track and cause more trouble than help. Often times, creativity is tossed and balance is based on card cost formulas. Dont get me wrong OldTreees, your formulas are genius and they should be considered, however, many people use them to dictate what a card should be. It really has NO use in other cards either, which is the current comparison that was made. it only balances them for rainbow decks that use QT's and nothing else. In reality, other has be balanced for both mono and rainbow. Otherwise, cards like SoG will only be useful for rainbows, and nothing else.

im issuing a challenge. Someone create a deck that is so OP due to SoG's. Pvp me with it.  Winning or losing wont be the final factor, only the margin of defeat for either side will be. If pvp is meant to be the balancing factor, then lets have at it

*goes to chat to wait for someone to challenge him*