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smuglapse

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg96074#msg96074
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2010, 06:26:38 pm »
The freezing effect of Ice Bolt changed the results of several games I played. Its clear its useful.

My opinion: no changes needed.
That can be said of any card.  You haven't said anything about its power rating.

miniwally

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg96139#msg96139
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2010, 07:08:23 pm »
The freezing effect of Ice Bolt changed the results of several games I played. Its clear its useful.

My opinion: no changes needed.
That can be said of any card.  You haven't said anything about its power rating.
He sort of did he said that ice bolt has been game changing thus shouldn't be changed.

Selenbrant

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg96365#msg96365
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2010, 10:55:43 pm »
3. With just 12/11 quanta, you can kill or render a lot of creatures useless or dead:
Isnt the amount of quanta before playing the card considered? So 10 :water for both upped and nonupped?

Offline Marvaddin

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg96398#msg96398
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2010, 11:14:55 pm »
The freezing effect of Ice Bolt changed the results of several games I played. Its clear its useful.

My opinion: no changes needed.
That can be said of any card.  You haven't said anything about its power rating.
I was talking about a secondary effect you said its not necessary, but in my opinion it adds a lot to the card.

bojengles77

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg96429#msg96429
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2010, 11:38:01 pm »
3. With just 12/11 quanta, you can kill or render a lot of creatures useless or dead:
Isnt the amount of quanta before playing the card considered? So 10 :water for both upped and nonupped?
yes

rakazy8564

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg97626#msg97626
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2010, 11:00:31 am »
Why not make it get stronger faster?  As in decrease the divider?  Or make it freeze the target if it doesn't die, but only for 2 turns?  However, besides Freeze what else can water do?  If Zanz or one of you can come up with a new Water Spell then Freeze will have to do for now.  The suggestion that it should generate quanta the more quanta you have is odd.  Usually when I have a lot of quanta (ie 30+) I don't need all of it and I generate a large surplus.  Why would you want more?

918273645

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg99029#msg99029
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2010, 03:18:40 am »
One word. Freeze.

twinsbuster

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg99051#msg99051
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2010, 04:04:59 am »
Why not make it get stronger faster?  As in decrease the divider?  Or make it freeze the target if it doesn't die, but only for 2 turns?  However, besides Freeze what else can water do?  If Zanz or one of you can come up with a new Water Spell then Freeze will have to do for now.  The suggestion that it should generate quanta the more quanta you have is odd.  Usually when I have a lot of quanta (ie 30+) I don't need all of it and I generate a large surplus.  Why would you want more?
It makes your next ice bolt much stronger, this is what my idea come from, while fire have diminishing power, ice should in opposite

rakazy8564

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg99125#msg99125
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2010, 08:11:14 am »
Why not make it get stronger faster?  As in decrease the divider?  Or make it freeze the target if it doesn't die, but only for 2 turns?  However, besides Freeze what else can water do?  If Zanz or one of you can come up with a new Water Spell then Freeze will have to do for now.  The suggestion that it should generate quanta the more quanta you have is odd.  Usually when I have a lot of quanta (ie 30+) I don't need all of it and I generate a large surplus.  Why would you want more?
It makes your next ice bolt much stronger, this is what my idea come from, while fire have diminishing power, ice should in opposite
If you change its original effect to "Do 2 damage and for every 10 :water gain 2 more :water", you lose it's damage increase for every 10 :water that you have.  Unless you plan to replace its original freeze with that.  Also, you have to have at least 50 initial :water to increase the damage unless the next bolt is pretty much the same bolt.

50 :fire = 18 damage
50 :water = 12 damage + 10 :water
60 :water = 14 damage + 12 :water
72 :water = 16 damage + 12 :water
84 :water = 18 damage + 12 :water

Even if that's implemented it doesn't really get all that much stronger.  Also, how does fire have diminishing power?  However, if you lower the divisor you'll allow it to grow faster;

Divisor = 8
50 :fire = 18 damage
50 :water = 14 damage
64 :water = 18 damage
Divisor = 7
50 :water = 16 damage
56 :water = 18 damage
Divisor = 6
50 :water = 18 damage

As you can see if you go lower than 6 Ice Bolt will get stronger at an accelerated rate.  However, this is only favorable for decks that produce excess quanta.  Your idea is for decks that are usually low on quanta, but you should make the Ice Bolt free, as you're already going to produce :water anyway.

Wynden

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg99943#msg99943
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2010, 12:36:55 pm »
3. With just 12/11 quanta, you can kill or render a lot of creatures useless or dead:
Isnt the amount of quanta before playing the card considered? So 10 :water for both upped and nonupped?
In response to that, I was incorporating the boost with the 10 water quanta.  ::)

Asris

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg102060#msg102060
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2010, 09:57:18 am »
I love my ice lances. They don't need a change. Sure, it doesnt win any awards for being the most damaging spell but it clearly was never meant to be. Their power is in their versatility, how they can be used to destroy creatures/Player's HP or stalling.

What does fire or drain do against flying titans? What happens if they dont have enough quanta to destroy a X/12 creature? At least ice bolt can stall them. If you have enough quanta to destroy those two then you're probably not too far away from being able to do it with ice bolt.

If you have a card that heals a monster for 8 HP and has a 30% chance of healing you for 10. Do you refuse to use it because Holy light heals monsters for 10?

If you take out the freeze ability, the card would be a lot less appealing and become more situational.

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Re: why ice bolt much weaker than the other 2 bolts? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7805.msg103881#msg103881
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2010, 07:04:38 pm »
As the Master of Water, I'd wager that I've probably cast more Ice Lances than everyone else in this thread combined -- and I'd have to say, I'd be pretty upset if they were changed.  They already cost less (unupgraded) than Fire Bolt or Drain Life, and the freezing effect is absolutely vital against bigger creatures that wouldn't be killed by a Fire Bolt under the same circumstances. 

More importantly, :water is more capable of long stalls than :fire will ever be, so that ratio of 2-for-10 really is appropriate.  If it were greater, it would be too easy for :water to stall out and OTK someone with Bolts.
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