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Arondight

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Re: Let's Balance Miracle! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4979.msg50068#msg50068
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2010, 03:29:34 am »
I don't think Miracle is overpowered at all. Even more so, I find that Shards of Gratitude are more overpowered. Probably need an upkeep cost. Although, that would ruin Anti-FG but balance PvP, but I digress.  :)

Delreich

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Re: Let's Balance Miracle! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4979.msg50436#msg50436
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2010, 11:09:34 pm »
In addition to what has been said, it's not often that Miracle actually gives you all that much more than what Heal does.
If it's somewhat late in the game, you can't really wait until you're <12 hp like the FGs do.

Offline yaladilae

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Re: Let's Balance Miracle! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4979.msg50473#msg50473
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2010, 12:12:52 am »
I run a 33 card killer, Over 150 games recorded (maybe another 200 or so from testing) mircale saved me about 20-30 times mid game to lategame (rarely early game)

But too many games I have had it kept in my hand til I won

The reason I wont replace it is bcause i dont know when is the time I need that quick full heal

Besides, combo with bone wall makes perfect EM !!!!

Oh... and to answer your question, no I dont think its overpowered

Seravy

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Re: Let's Balance Miracle! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4979.msg50735#msg50735
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2010, 01:06:28 pm »
No, Miracle is not overpowered.
False gods who have access to tons more quanta, and draw two cards per turn, stockpiling 5-10 miracles and using them all in a single game are making it look like that.

If anything, I would instead suggest it to have an increasing cost, meaning
1st miracle costs 12, second costs 18, third cost 24, 4th 30 etc light quanta, because the ONLY problem I see with the card is the pure annoyance of playing 10 copies, and losing to deckout because too many of them were played.

To speak in MTG terms :
"Miracle costs 12+6*X where X equals to the number of miracle cards in your graveyard"
would do the trick. Replace 6 with the number you think would be the best.

Limiting the card to 1 per deck, or just adding "You can't play more copies of Miracle this game" to the end of the effect also works.

Offline Kamietsu

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Re: Let's Balance Miracle! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4979.msg50754#msg50754
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2010, 02:13:51 pm »
Why? There is absolutely no point to that. In where it sort of matters (PvP) Not many really use that card, and if they do, chances are you already have the upper hand by then. When Miracle starts unleashing all her miracles on me, she is already on a loosing track and cannot possibly recover. Yes it is a powerful card, but it also does cost a lot, I believe the highest costing card in the game unupgraded. Which is why people tend to opt for Shards and Empathetic Bonds instead.

Miracle is perfectly fine the way it is, no reason to change it whatsoever. If it were to be changed it would only be a frustrating and pointless change as only the FG's really use more than one miracle. It's rare to cross a PvP deck that uses more than one, unless you are Xdude with his mono light deck :P
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ufcfan

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Re: Let's Balance Miracle! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4979.msg50765#msg50765
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2010, 02:43:53 pm »
I use improved miracle in my rainbow deck and now I am wondering if I should change that as it seems most people don't.

Offline asymmetry

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Re: Let's Balance Miracle! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4979.msg50790#msg50790
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2010, 03:33:25 pm »
Balance WHAT? did i missed something? 
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JETZAL

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Re: Let's Balance Miracle! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4979.msg52210#msg52210
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2010, 02:28:40 pm »
I'm pretty sure we can all agree that miracle is overpowered. Twelve quanta equals one less than full health. Pretty cheap considering how easy it is to get twelve light quanta (typically two turns). Not many decks can dish out fifty damage a turn. Add in some SoD's and hope and there's almost no way anyone could bring your life down to nil. So let's discuss some ways to balance miracle. Here's what I've got:

Option 1
-When miracle is played, you get a miracle token. It's a permanent that can't be targeted. For each miracle token you possess, the effectiveness of your next miracle decreases. The amount could be whatever really, but let's just say it's  1/7 less effective for each one you own (about 14%).

Option 2
-Again, miracle tokens are created when miracle is played. This time, they act like flooding/inundation by draining a certain amount of light quanta you possess at the end of your turn. Depending on how harsh you want to make it, the you could come up with a few formulas for how much quanta to drain. For instance, it could be exactly like inundation and drain three light quanta (or however much seems fair). Another option would be to increase the amount drained by each one depending on how many you have already played. An example would be: "Drain x light quanta at the end of each turn. X is the amount of miracle tokens you possess." This could be altered if that seems too cheap... perhaps x+1. The first one is probably better though. It would basically be x2 for each one you own (one token means one drained, two tokens means four drained, three means nine, etc). The latter is somewhat harsher. It would be two drained for one, six drained for two, twelve drained for three, etc. It's really just x2+x.

Anyway, post comments or other ideas.
I can't say i think it's OP because I've killed many Half-bloods that use it like 3 times... :)

 

anything
blarg: