Twin/Parallel Universe Targeting & Immortality

[ChairmanMao]

The wording on Twin/Parallel Universe is "Summon an exact copy of the target creature."  Shouldn't that mean that immortal creatures which are "untargetable" unable to be copied by these cards?  Being a former Magic: The Gathering player, I know that we're trained to pay very close attention to the exact wording of cards' abilities for rules on how they operate.  I think either the wording needs to be changed to "any creature on the field" or the targeting ability needs to be changed to exclude immortals.

Similarly, I have another concern over immortal targeting.  Since the wording for immortality is that a creature is "untargetable", shouldn't area/global effects such as firestorm or unstable gas still have an effect since they are not technically targeting?  I realize maybe the intention is that immortal creature are not tangible so nothing can touch them, but maybe the wording of the ability needs to be altered.

[Kamietsu]

I see no issue with the wording. PU summons an exact copy of the target creature, but it can't work on untargetable creatures. That makes perfect and logical sense. And Global/Area effect cards still techically need to target each card it hits. But it cannot target untargetable cards.

[ChairmanMao]

I see no issue with the wording. PU summons an exact copy of the target creature, but it can't work on untargetable creatures. That makes perfect and logical sense.

Um... That's my whole point.. I guess you misunderstood me.  The thing is, right now TU/PU can copy untargetable creatures.  My suggestion is that it shouldn't.  I just played a few rounds with Paradox and it kept copying my already immortal creatures.  That shouldn't be able to happen.

[Kamietsu]

I see no issue with the wording. PU summons an exact copy of the target creature, but it can't work on untargetable creatures. That makes perfect and logical sense.

Um... That's my whole point.. I guess you misunderstood me.  The thing is, right now TU/PU can copy untargetable creatures.  My suggestion is that it shouldn't.  I just played a few rounds with Paradox and it kept copying my already immortal creatures.  That shouldn't be able to happen.

Since when can it do that? I've never seen that done before in my entire Elements gaming period.

[ChairmanMao]

I see no issue with the wording. PU summons an exact copy of the target creature, but it can't work on untargetable creatures. That makes perfect and logical sense.

Um... That's my whole point.. I guess you misunderstood me.  The thing is, right now TU/PU can copy untargetable creatures.  My suggestion is that it shouldn't.  I just played a few rounds with Paradox and it kept copying my already immortal creatures.  That shouldn't be able to happen.

Since when can it do that? I've never seen that done before in my entire Elements gaming period.

I just watched it happen.  I wouldn't post about it otherwise.  I will say I was playing on the trainer when it happened. But that shouldn't matter unless the trainer has an outdated set of rules.  Call me a crackhead if I'm just seeing things... but I played an Elite Anubis a few turns prior. Already set it to immortal on the second turn it was in play.  Then Paradox plays parallel universe and copies it. 

[BluePriest]

I see no issue with the wording. PU summons an exact copy of the target creature, but it can't work on untargetable creatures. That makes perfect and logical sense. And Global/Area effect cards still techically need to target each card it hits. But it cannot target untargetable cards.

Are you talking in the game, or in the background? Because rof for example, is just a rain of fire hitting everything on the opponents side, the card doesnt seem like its meaning that it targets each individual creatrure. Thats more like Focused multifireball or soemthing like that. I forget who said it, but things that happen in the background should stay in the background, and things that happen in the foreground. Just fyi imo. Most people are accustomed to taking the cards literally on what they say and not having to worry about what the coding says.

[ChairmanMao]

I see no issue with the wording. PU summons an exact copy of the target creature, but it can't work on untargetable creatures. That makes perfect and logical sense. And Global/Area effect cards still techically need to target each card it hits. But it cannot target untargetable cards.

Are you talking in the game, or in the background? Because rof for example, is just a rain of fire hitting everything on the opponents side, the card doesnt seem like its meaning that it targets each individual creatrure. Thats more like Focused multifireball or soemthing like that. I forget who said it, but things that happen in the background should stay in the background, and things that happen in the foreground. Just fyi imo. Most people are accustomed to taking the cards literally on what they say and not having to worry about what the coding says.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say on the immortality issue.  I shouldn't have to play and figure out from experience how exactly effects and abilities work.  It should be an exact literal coding of how it is worded on the card.  If the "immortality" ability only says it makes a creature untargetable, then global effects which have no specific target should still hit them.  If they code immortality as "can't be affected by anything", then they need to state that under the ability.  "Cannot be the target of any effects/abilities. Unaffected by global/mass effects."

Sorry to keep referring to MtG, but very similarly, they have an ability called "shroud" which the definition is "This permanent or player can’t be the target of spells or abilities." But even with this ability, global effects such as "Wrath of God" which destroys all creatures, can destroy shrouded creatures. I know Elements is not Magic, but it'd be nice for them to try to match the accuracy of literal wordings like Magic.

[Kamietsu]

You are right. This is not M:TG. I see it's fine as is and I never had any trouble with the wording when I first started playing it. Learn to adapt.

[ChairmanMao]

You are right. This is not M:TG. I see it's fine as is and I never had any trouble with the wording when I first started playing it. Learn to adapt.

Wording should be clear, concise, and literal.  Since this is an electronic game, the coding for the game should match the clear, concise, and literal wording.  This makes for more straightforward gameplay without the need for speculation and debate about rules, which makes the experience more enjoyable for everyone.

Suggestions are meant to improve the game as a whole for existing and new players.  Obviously, I understand how the ability works now through experience of playing.  But as a new player, it would be nice to not need to "learn to adapt".  It would be beneficial for players to know exactly how everything works from reading the card in question, without having to play through many card combos/situations before figuring it out.  This helps to attract, hook, and keep more players with the game, which I'm sure helps the community and developers.

[MrSexington]

I see no issue with the wording. PU summons an exact copy of the target creature, but it can't work on untargetable creatures. That makes perfect and logical sense.

Um... That's my whole point.. I guess you misunderstood me.  The thing is, right now TU/PU can copy untargetable creatures.  My suggestion is that it shouldn't.  I just played a few rounds with Paradox and it kept copying my already immortal creatures.  That shouldn't be able to happen.

I've also never had this happen to me.

You either saw it wrong or it's a really weird bug.

The wording could be a little more clear when it comes to "targeting."  But really, it only takes one trial and one error and you're set.  If I were on the team coding for the game, I'd put it on the "to-do" list, but very low priority.

[Chemist]

Yeah I guess they'll have to fix that text someday.

The way the "immaterial" status currently works is: "Cannot be the targeted with any effects/abilities. Unaffected by global/mass effects." Effects which select their targets without player intervention (except global/mass effects) still work (e.g. Animate Weapon, Fire Shield, growth).

In the case of Adrenaline, though, there simply isn't enough space on the card to correctly word the effect... much like there isn't enough space to list all of Chaos Seed's possible effects.

[jmizzle7]

Parallel Universe can not and has never been able to target immaterial creatures. Period.

Rain of Fire and Plague also do not hit immaterial creatures. The wording is arguably not specific enough, but then again, there is only so much room on a card to describe what it does. (Adrenaline has an entire article about it describing its mechanics, for example.) This is assumed to be intended behavior, as Zanz hasn't said a word about them in the five updates he has issued in the past three months. Immaterial status makes creatures very hard to deal with, but it isn't overpowered. Elements is not M:tG, so immaterial status has different implications than the shroud status, regardless of the similarities. In the future, who knows... maybe there will be a global effect that kills all creatures regardless of status. Until then, just kill your opponent before his immaterial creatures kill you.