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Offline Kuroaitou

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Re: Three birds, two stones https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11658.msg151776#msg151776
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 04:22:40 am »
...[snip]
I think FGs should get harder, but guess what--they are getting harder.  Balancing cards and improving AI, while slow, is effectively making the FGs harder, and I think it's fun.  So I'm happy with the way things are headed.

As far as easy gods vs hard gods, that really depends on your deck.  Destiny is extremely easy for a Fractal/Hope and rainbow, but rush decks get walloped by the Rewinds.  I know the vast majority of people don't use rush decks but I think it's good to have one hard counter.  I use Fractal/Hope and I think Octane may be mathematically impossible, but I don't complain, I just skip it.
...[snip]
The bold parts pretty much say it all.

In addition to old FG's having smarter A.I. (remember the 'Miracle' change where any FG that was 'pseudo-low' on health would use a Miracle pre-emptively to avoid getting clobbered the next turn?), nearly every False god has a massive counter to a certain strategy, and each still has a chance of killing the typical Rainbows (including the ones that are weak).

Destiny - a few lucky dragons that hatch from Fate eggs can spell trouble if you don't have that shield or CC ready.
Ferox - Can outrush you within the first few turns if you don't have your cards ready
Miracle - See Ferox
Paradox - Can screw you over by buffing a Deja Vu or RoL several times, then duplicating them 3 times after drawing the cards with Hourglasses that you didn't destroy earlier
etc.

...and I've been beaten by those FGs on several occasions because they just had the better hand and strategy.

I honestly don't think any of the FGs are -ever- easy. Sure, I have a slightly better win chance against some of them (including those above), but at the same time, I have an abysmal rate against several others (mainly ones that have :fire quanta and can spare Explosions :'(), which balances it out in the end, and even then, the odds switch around every now and then (hooray losing streaks). These people who want 'easier False Gods' or 'a level 7 AI' should just be ignored, because the constant A.I. and card changes will constantly ensure that each of the FGs are tough to beat.

I will agree with you on one thing though Gl1tch for sure: the Half-blood decks need to be tweaked somehow to provide a better experience for all players. As of now, it's either AI3 (quick grinding), T50 (rare farming and pvp deckbuilding), and False Gods. Half-Bloods kind of just slipped through the cracks when it came down to deck-designing for them...

Offline tinkady

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Re: Three birds, two stones https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11658.msg152086#msg152086
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2010, 05:47:33 pm »
make AI5 a bit harder with much better rewards, let false gods continue getting slowly harder. 'nuff said

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Re: Three birds, two stones https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11658.msg156754#msg156754
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2010, 10:44:59 pm »
My suggestion :

AI5 (Half Bloods) : Make them have fully upgraded decks. Let them draw two cards per turn. Limit them to 2x mark, and 100 health. Keep their decks the way it is now.
Minimum amount of work for the developer, makes farming reasonably easy, and won't mess with false gods. It also provides access to all upgraded cards instead of only the ones gods actually use, so less selling of extra copies for electrum and more useful,new cards won.
AI6 (False Gods) : Implement the False God Realms suggestion with the changes to FG decks I suggested. Let them keep their current advantages. Increase the number of spins here to 5.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11606.msg167263#msg167263 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11606.msg167263#msg167263)
This would make False Gods much more farmable than now, but they'd still be a challenge, and you'd still need to be a very good player to build good anti FG decks on your own. If you can't do that, you'll stick to AI5 instead and lose out on the extra spins, and better card win chance (more copies of the same card in the FG deck than the HB one means more cards won per spin)

AI7 : unnecessary if other challenging quests are added, like this one below :

Implement a "Get a Challenge" button in the Quest window. This would give you a random quest of "Beat -opponent name- by condition". Opponent name would be the name of an AI3, HB or FG based on player score. The next time within that day the player fights that AI level, that opponent will be playing against him. If he clears the challenge he is rewarded with a card of his choice (AI3 = rare, AI5 =upgraded non-rare, AI6 = upgraded rare or nymph).

The conditions could be
"using a mono <element> deck"
"without healing"
"without playing creatures"
"3 times in a row" (this'd make you fight that opponent 3 times, or until you lose and fail the quest)
"without playing a shield"
"with elemental masterity"
"without destroying a permanent"
"without killing a creature"
...etc, there are tons of possibilities here.

Something like this would result in a near infinite possible challenges, which promotes deckbuilding on your own instead of the current "find strongest deck on forum" solution most people use. It would also have good enough rewards that make it worth the effort, and it would be FUN to do as well.

Make it repeatable, but disable it for 24 hours of after the third failed attempt of the same day.

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Re: Three birds, two stones https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11658.msg157884#msg157884
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2010, 05:34:25 pm »
I really agree with Half Bloods being unrewarding, the upgrade ratio is actually reducing the odds of winning cards, and the high hp make it much slower to farm than AI3, which totally destroys the minor electrum per win advantage (if present at all...). Maybe let HBs get 100 HP, but keep the x2 draw and 3x mark, and let them have decks with a strategy, not the random garbage collection they pack now (I'd be more than happy to come up with ideas for those :) ).

Also have the upped cards from an HB grouped, like rather than 8 (just random number I came up with) random upped cards, 8 identical cards upped, to increase winning odds of these upped cards, right now it's all luck to get an upped card from HB...

Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Three birds, two stones https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11658.msg236873#msg236873
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2010, 06:01:42 am »
 I haven't played FG a lot, but they certainly are hard.  This whole theory is rather confusing, but yes, AI5 does need to be improved. AI6 is fine, it's only problem is the AI which is (obviously) getting better.
Also, for AI7, see this idea I cooked up before I got redirected to this thread -
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18599.0/topicseen.html

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Re: Three birds, two stones https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11658.msg236948#msg236948
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2010, 10:40:02 am »
I haven't played FG a lot, but they certainly are hard.  This whole theory is rather confusing, but yes, AI5 does need to be improved. AI6 is fine, it's only problem is the AI which is (obviously) getting better.
Also, for AI7, see this idea I cooked up before I got redirected to this thread -
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18599.0/topicseen.html
AI5 is now improved (version 1.26). Was it improved enough? Maybe not. But anyway, Half-Bloods are now giving harder time for grinders and rewards are also little bit better - higher change to win upped cards.

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Re: Three birds, two stones https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11658.msg236967#msg236967
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2010, 11:42:40 am »
AI5 is now improved (version 1.26). Was it improved enough? Maybe not. But anyway, Half-Bloods are now giving harder time for grinders and rewards are also little bit better - higher change to win upped cards.
I think Gl1tch's idea would be better than what was done. It IS a step forward, but hey, look at me: I didn't bother farming AI 5 back in 1.25, I'm not bothering now. It's just WAY easier to get an AI3 farmer with a 7 ttw and kill the losers while gaining about 1k electrum an hour, get 6 RoL and cook up a RoL+Hope unupped (done), then move to the FGs. I'm farming FGs with RoL+Hope NOW, and I don't think AI5 is anywhere near that level of attention. Even for noobs that still need to get their first upgraded cards. A friend of mine started the 24th because he was bored, and got 4 minor phoenixes before the 27th using a mono-fire he built by himself. He farmed AI3, too, and tried PvP1, AI5 and even FGs before deciding that AI3 was the best. In fact, now that you can reliably get a Pharaoh and sell it for about 350 :electrum, upgrading your first cards is even easier that way...
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Re: Three birds, two stones https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11658.msg236972#msg236972
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2010, 11:53:23 am »
I definitely agree that the AI5 should be improved: even though I used to farm them at one point while testing my rainbow deck out it was never really worthwhile-with the randomness of their decks I used to (very occasionally) beat them before they played more than two or three creatures (I beat Lumsa (light/gravity) when his only creature was a ray of light). Just to prove their lack of challenge (mainly) I could beat at least 50% of them with my shrieker/graboid with 4 added shards of gratitude...

 

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