This game needs more denial elements!

[Captain Scibra]

Any element is capable of denial, actually any element can do anything.  The thing is is to find a theme which both matches the element and mechanic.

Encumber | Encumber (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32133.new.html#new)

[jmdt]

Zanz said the perm will be draw 3-4 cards for the opponent...we have some denial on the way.

[EmeraldTiger]

hmmm  + what ever would mean limited plays?

[OldTrees]

Rush is balanced by Anti-rush
Stall is balanced by Anti-stall
Denial is balanced by Anti-denial

More Denial and Anti-denial cards please!

Zanz said the perm will be draw 3-4 cards for the opponent

Gulp. Fire will be the second element to get their Deckout enhancer? Wow.

[Pineapple]

Neurotoxin is a form of denial, akin to a type of mechanic that forces you to play a limited amount (usually zero) of cards because of some arbitrary conditional (if you don't, you'll die by excessive poison)

[dragonsdemesne]

I agree on more denial cards.  It would increase the dynamic of the game considerably.  It would also hopefully draw people away somewhat from mindless rushes.  Rushing has its place, but it's too prevalent in this game.  Mind you, I think that's more due to the player base than the game environment itself; I don't think many of our players have a lot of experience with these types of games, as Elements is more of a casual gamer's thing.  Unfortunately, those sorts of gamers are also the ones who will probably hate it when denial is used on them :p  But you can't please them all...

[Xenocidius]

Rush is balanced by Anti-rush
Stall is balanced by Anti-stall
Denial is balanced by Anti-denial

More Denial and Anti-denial cards please!

We were musing about a Scissors-Paper-Rock theory in Chat where Rush is Anti-Denial (Rock), Stall is Anti-Rush (Paper) and Denial is Anti-Stall (Scissors).

[OldTrees]

Rush is balanced by Anti-rush
Stall is balanced by Anti-stall
Denial is balanced by Anti-denial

More Denial and Anti-denial cards please!

We were musing about a Scissors-Paper-Rock theory in Chat where Rush is Anti-Denial (Rock), Stall is Anti-Rush (Paper) and Denial is Anti-Stall (Scissors).

Rush cards and Anti-denial cards sometimes overlap (Immolation, Nova) but not always (Lava Golem, Sanctuary). The general form of the strategies do form that configuration. However access to Anti-denial cards are what balances Denial cards.

[jmdt]

Rush is balanced by Anti-rush
Stall is balanced by Anti-stall
Denial is balanced by Anti-denial

More Denial and Anti-denial cards please!

Zanz said the perm will be draw 3-4 cards for the opponent

Gulp. Fire will be the second element to get their Deckout enhancer? Wow.

As we discussed in chat, it really does make sense for fire to have some sort of hand or deck disruption.  I would prefer to just nuke the cards, but I guess drawing works too.

Hopefully zanz adds the ability destroy cards in the hand eventually.  People threw a fit with the old dune scorpion effect, but discarding really isn't that powerful overall and would really help balance the game.  Ability to hack the hand would make it almost impossible to fire stall effectively; this is really a concern for the game right now.

Ideally speaking in a balanced game any card should be usable and no deck should ever see > ~20-30% of competative play.  I know some people dislike this approach, but i really think adding cards to essentially nerf overly stong decks is a great idea overall.  Fractal was everyone's enemy #1 and it got a cost increase as well as dune scorpion and nightmare added as soft counters (yes both cards are essentially denial cards).  Now fractal is still used, but no one complains because its much more difficult to pull off.  With more denial counters to the current dominant stalls the game will become more balanced and closer toward the goal that any card can work in an effective deck.

[Xenocidius]

I'm going to go ahead and advertise my Degrade | Decay (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32129) card which employs the 'nuke a card' mechanic you mentioned. It was originally going to be in Fire, but I decided that Fire is already considered very overpowered and has enough control as it is.

[TuckingFypo]

I think Contrary already mentioned something like this, but if we want to add more denial into the game, I think it should not be direct denial.

By direct denial, I mean things like Discord or EQ that literally prevent you from playing anything.  It's just no fun when you have your middle finger plotted on the spacebar to end turns because you can't play any cards at all.

Instead, denial I prefer should not prevent you from playing those cards, but cause a negative side effect should those cards be played.  This is more mentally challenging, more fun and thus better than adding in direct denial.

[ddevans96]

Instead, denial I prefer should not prevent you from playing those cards, but cause a negative side effect should those cards be played.  This is more mentally challenging, more fun and thus better than adding in direct denial.

QFT

Neurotoxin is a good example of soft denial - it just penalizes you for playing cards, and is fun (for me anyways) to outrace and play around, whereas hard denial has a much stronger capability to become a spacebar game.