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Offline Xinef

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51665#msg51665
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2010, 02:59:42 pm »
Also, I don't think 1 turn in an elemental battle is that long so it wouldn't make sense that they die after 1 turn in any case.
Though even if they don't die that quickly, they would still be unable to attack, and they can be wiped away by the waves, so it makes sense to remove them from battlefield.

As for the fate egg it's a magical egg... if it can turn into a golem, a spark, a photon or a water creature, you never know if it would survive or not... and probably even if eggs need some exchange of oxygen with carbon dioxide, water has enough oxygen in it anyway (the reason creatures with lungs can drown while fishes cannot is not because lack of oxygen in water, but because lungs are not designed to work with water inside).
May the force of the D4HK side be with U ^_^
:time samurai

icybraker

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51668#msg51668
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2010, 03:07:03 pm »
Concerning how swimming creatures will eventually get tired swimming and drown, that is not true because a frog can just float on top of the water with no effort. I've raised frogs before, and I raise them in a fish tank which means no land whatsoever and there were no frogs dying from drowning for the 2 years I've raised them. As for flying creatures need to eventually land, there is a kind of swallow that never land for most of its life except for before they can fly and when they are mating and breeding. Also, I don't think 1 turn in an elemental battle is that long so it wouldn't make sense that they die after 1 turn in any case. As for someone's suggestion that forest spectre shouldn't die, that wouldn't make sense since plants that can live in water are much different from plants on land, and even those that could live in water will be rooted by the flood. Fate eggs should not survive because a egg actually breaths, the fetus in the egg still needs oxygen.
You know what, I'm sick of arguing real-world situations. Of course, I can point out that the life spans of frogs fare exceed 2 years, and I can argue the usage of the term "a kind" of swallow, but I won't. You know why?

Consider this. Let's say that we implement all your suggestions. Let's say that we allow Fireflies, Wyrms, Dragons, Frogs, and Spirits to survive under Flood. Heck, you can even say that flying weapons survive with Flood. Okay, cool.

Now what? How are players going to know that these creatures don't die? There are three ways.
1) On EVERY card that can survive with Flood, you write, "This card can survive Flood".
    There are several reasons why this is bad. First off, you're adding many additional lines of text, just to solve a very simple issue that can just be ignored.[/li] Dragons and Frogs are unique in that they are vanilla creatures. You are removing that aspect from them.[/li] It gets confusing. You're going to have to document a list of all the creatures who can survive Flood, and compare, and you don't have to at all.[/li] You're making up an ability to simply counter ONE CARD. So much more confusion and text simply to fix up a small facet of ONE CARD.[/li]
2) On the Flood card, you indicate: "Water creatures, Air creatures, Frogs, Forest Spirits, and Dragons can survive Flood."
    Flood has just turned into a very confusing card.[/li] This will cause more harm than good. People will be confused as to why some creatures are exempt from Flood while others aren't; it may not be as apparent to some as it is to others.[/li]
3) On the Flood card, you say: "Certain cards may bypass Flood" to simplify things (like Adrenaline).
    Adrenaline was bad enough. We don't need more confusion to new players.[/li]

Kurohami

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51678#msg51678
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2010, 03:28:10 pm »
I was not the one who propose the fate egg, forest spectre and other creatures to survive flood, I don't really care if they do or not. But it would be simple to write on the card flood:" water creatures and swimming/flying creatures survives the flood." That would be simple enough, and not very confusing.

icybraker

  • Guest
Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51679#msg51679
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2010, 03:29:30 pm »
And how would you define a swimming creature? Do Cockatrices swim? Do Colossal Dragons fly? Flying weapons are not really creatures, but they fly; would they survive?

Exactly.

Kurohami

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51683#msg51683
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2010, 03:37:41 pm »
A cockatrice is obviously a land based creature a Colossal dragon does fly because it has wings, flying weapons are obviously flying.

icybraker

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51685#msg51685
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2010, 03:39:23 pm »
These may be obvious to YOU, but you don't speak for all of us. The Cockatrice has wings; look closely. Who says it's a land-based creature?

A Colossal Dragon has wings, but so do penguins, and they can't fly. Is the Colossal Dragon still adapted for flight?

The point is, when the real world and the Elements world clash, the way to go is the simpler way.

Kurohami

  • Guest
Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51688#msg51688
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2010, 03:46:12 pm »
You do have a point but I think letting frog be a stand alone to survive the flood would be likewise as how the flood is a stand alone in this kind of mass creature control permanents. So, forget the flying creatures, just give the frogs the right to swim can't be that bad.

icybraker

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51692#msg51692
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2010, 03:56:48 pm »
And yet, that introduces another problem. People will start saying, "If frogs can survive the flood, why can't flying weapons and dragons? Why only frogs?"

Which is why we should simplify everything and just make water creatures survive. It really isn't that difficult to accept.

Kurohami

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51705#msg51705
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2010, 04:37:56 pm »
Well, I guess I just hate the card flooding, that's why it's hard for me to accept it.

icybraker

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg51706#msg51706
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2010, 04:40:03 pm »
Meh, I don't like Flood that much either, but there are other ways to nerf it, like exponential upkeep cost.

JETZAL

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg52014#msg52014
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2010, 12:55:26 am »
I live by a swap and I've seen frogs drown....sorry

Kurohami

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Re: The plea of a dying frog: "I'm not supposed to die!" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5093.msg52063#msg52063
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2010, 02:33:15 am »
I am very curious to inquire as to how you are able to know that they have died of drowning instead of endless other causes, did you take the time to pick them up and take them to a medical lab and do tests on them?
I raised frogs in entirely water environments(fish tanks), and they have not drown, are you implying that they can held their breath for many months and will drown right after that?

 

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