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Offline EvaRiaTopic starter

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Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg261798#msg261798
« on: February 01, 2011, 07:04:31 am »
I've done this thread before, but I feel it's justified to have another go at it and see if more people can give me a bit of feedback.

The current PvP Timer system is incredibly flawed and is the leading cause of minor desyncs in the PvP system.
With a couple changes, this could probably decrease the level of frustration around desyncs greatly.

The problem is this:

There are currently 2 different timers.

The green one displays when it's your turn. It lasts for 60 seconds or less, then makes you automatically end your turn.

The yellow one displays on your opponent's turn. It lasts for 60 seconds, then turns into a 10 second red timer. After that timer runs out, the computer takes over on your computer.

The issues arise when you have bad connections, or prolong your turn too much. Since it takes several seconds for the information from your turn to be sent to your opponent, it sometimes arrives after that yellow/red timer runs out, even though you still completed your turn.

Bam, desync. Your opponent is playing the AI, but you remain connected for a short amount of time.

This can be easily fixed with this proposed system:

Yellow Timer: Your opponent's turn.

Run for 60 seconds.

If 60 seconds run out, display the following message:

Waiting for your opponent...

Stand-by like this.


Green Timer: Your own turn.

Run for 60 seconds.

When timer runs out, display this message:

(!) Please complete your turn, or you run the risk of losing.

At that moment, you go into "Unresponsive mode".

When this happens, the yellow screen message changes from

Waiting for your opponent...

to

Your opponent is not responding. Disconnect? (AI will take over). [YES]

If you click the [YES] button, you will disconnect from the PvP game and the AI will take over on your screen. This gives you full control over the moment when the 2 of you disconnect from each other, which means that your opponent has plenty of time to not desync.

You can also choose to wait and see if your opponent responds! (This means you can effectively "Pause" the game if one of you needs to leave for a moment!)

If you choose to let the AI take over, the fact that you disconnected gets sent to your unresponsive opponent.

They will get sent to the "You Lost" Screen, with a message saying "You have lost the game for remaining unresponsive in the middle of a match. Score and electrum will be deducted accordingly."

This severs the connection completely, one player plays the AI and the other loses the match. This prevents issues regarding PvPvE games that happen now because of the time-out system.


So? What do you think? Would you be for or against such a system? (I personally think it's an improvement in every way.)

Offline plastiqe

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg261813#msg261813
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2011, 07:44:04 am »
It seems like an easy change that'll solve a lot of problems, but I can't really be sure because I don't have a programming background.  If it's really as simple as just changing the timers then this would be great.

kitty45

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg263024#msg263024
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 10:08:46 pm »
Nice Work  :). You are really good at this stuff. I'll do some PvP if you want some help of fixing desyncs.  :) ;)

Offline Kakerlake

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264322#msg264322
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 09:54:35 pm »
This change could prove to be very useful!
I'm absolutely in favor of this!

Offline 3D House of Beef

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264326#msg264326
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 09:59:46 pm »
Nice work.  Anything to minimize intentional and unintentional desync's I am in favor of.

Offline EvaRiaTopic starter

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264334#msg264334
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 10:06:59 pm »
I've been trying to get a hold of Zanz as much as possible, I gave him the link to this thread already.

I've also shown him a vid, etc.

It may be a while before we can get a hold of him for long enough that we can properly discuss it though.

For now, it should be enough to keep this thread alive just to get as many people as possible to see it.

Also, who voted for the old (current) system?

I am more than curious to know why.

kitty45

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264344#msg264344
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 10:29:19 pm »

Also, who voted for the old (current) system?

I am more than curious to know why.
no one did   ^-^     :D

wizelsnarf

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264447#msg264447
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2011, 01:58:02 am »
Sounds like a good idea.


I can't quite explain but it seems abusable on the other hand.


Sometimes it is neither players turn in real time and it seems like they could both end up getting the message and both disconnecting and then both taking a loss even though in reality it was no one's fault.

Also what happens if you take your turn right at the last second and finish it. The other person is going to think you are away or something because the clocks don't always sync up.




I think it is a good idea but it needs to be thought out more for the less obvious situations. I don't like the idea of my opponent being able to hand me a loss because of some hiccup in the internet...

Offline EvaRiaTopic starter

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264509#msg264509
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 03:25:33 am »
Neither of those situations should happen with this system.

The order of checking should make sure of that.

wizelsnarf

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264541#msg264541
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2011, 05:12:17 am »
What happens when my opponent clicks to another tab and his flash slows down to 5f/s or whatever. Our clocks desynch, I see the warning but the first one "waiting for your opponent"

I am sitting there with no chance to cancel, no ai takeover or anything.


In the mean time, my opponents clock is going extremely slow. When they click back to the tab 1-2 minute later it still says they have 40 seconds left to take their turn.


Meanwhile I am stuck in "waiting" mode. Now on my end it has been long over 60 seconds but I can't do anything because on my opponents end, he still has 40 seconds. His version of the game will not send the message that he failed to respond because as far as his version is concerned, only 20 seconds passed.


So I am stuck there with the option to wait or quit for however long my opponent stays out of his Game tab (60 seconds at 5 f/s (or whatever it is not sure) - I don't know how long that works out to be....)


I quit because I am tired of waiting and was never offered the option to go AI since that was dependent on my opponent's game.


PS i doubt the numbers I sited are correct but the point is....

Offline EvaRiaTopic starter

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264542#msg264542
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2011, 05:17:54 am »
I see what you mean.

I think the issue here is with the flash player, so there is only so much we can do about that.

I doubt that it will be much of a problem honestly, compared to the endless amount of frustration we get now for desyncing.

If anything, it might be something we could solve with a timer running on real time instead of by frame rate.

Point noted, of course.

wizelsnarf

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Re: Suggested Changes to PvP Timer/Timeout System https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20624.msg264551#msg264551
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 05:32:38 am »
Still a good idea! The whole system needs a lot of work. Your suggestion is a good start but needs to be thoroughly researched before implementation.


Also, its easier to be a naysayer than a yea-sayer. 

 

anything
blarg: