Starter Pack

[Manipul8r]

Thanks ninjamaster1991, I like the idea of having both Electrum packs and real money packs.  The Electrum packs could offer a discount on unlocking 3 of each card in 2 elements, while the money pack could offer the same for 4 or 6 elements.  You can buy the Electrum packs multiple times each, but only one each on the $ packs.  This way, you can't buy 6 of every card with real money, but you can with grinding.  You can also unlock 3 of each with money and grind the Electrum packs if you want 6 of each.

I'm glad to hear your opinion YoungSot, it seems like a lot of members on this forum are long time fans of this game, but have no need for such a starter pack, so I think it's beneficial to get some newer players' opinions.

At the same time, there is much to be said for the enjoyment of earning what you use, and the necessity of buying cards in the Bazaar means new players won't try ten different decks, burn themselves out on the game versus the AI, and go seeking greener pastures when there's nothing left to do.

That can be done in the Trainer, though.  The only advantages of grinding are the feelings of accomplishment you mention and the ability to PvP with a decent deck.  Provided the packs don't have upgraded cards or rares, I don't think much is lost there.  I admit I got pretty excited the first time I rolled a rare I hadn't seen in the Bazaar, but rolling another Dragonfly, not so much (and I can't imagine how many times that has happened to some of the veterans here).  There is also PvP for those that buy the starter pack and want to try something new out.  They'll probably quickly find they still need to grind a bit to get 6 of that one card they need for their deck, and all will be well.

[DrunkDestroyer]

Here's the basic idea, though:
- Six starter packs with the following elemental pairings:  -  -  -  -  - 
- 60 cards in each pack, including between 2 and 4 copies of each card.  Dragons and shields are always 2 copies, the rest is based on what would usually end up in a good deck.
- Each starter pack may only be bought once on each account.
- Prices start low and end high, to prevent a flooding of each new account with cards from every element:

I love this idea. It helps the new players out, and that's what the game needs. Just because some people have made it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
I'm not too sure about the elemental pairings there, I'd go with some sort of generic order somewhere. I would work with direct synergies if possible.
 / is very direct synergy
 / is the opposite those, and has some direct synergy hidden in there.
 / is also pretty direct, and won't do bad at all.
 / also opposite. Will probably end up being the strongest starter pack with strong stalling and rushing cards.

I don't know how to divide the last two, since I dislike the idea of direct opposites for this: Either  / or  / , with the first seemingly have stronger syneries, but then I'm completely lost with  / unupgraded.

Would pillars/pendulums be included in the deck?
And if you're worried about people selling them for more than their value, just leave up a giant warning saying 'These can only be bought once, and you are advised to keep them in order to customise and change your deck...blahblah'.

An example of one of these would be pretty cool too, I tried building one but didn't know if it was what you were looking for.
(Electrum only btw, Money is lame)

[YoungSot]

At the same time, there is much to be said for the enjoyment of earning what you use, and the necessity of buying cards in the Bazaar means new players won't try ten different decks, burn themselves out on the game versus the AI, and go seeking greener pastures when there's nothing left to do.

But IMHO "burnout" is much more likely to happen if you only have one or two decks to use. Trying ten different decks wouldn't be the cause of the burnout. It would increase the chances that one of those decks would work/be more fun, and thus increase the chance that said player would continue playing.

But your right about the need for benefits to feel "earned". There's a balance that has to be maintained in any game between making progress too hard to achieve so ppl get frustrated, or too easy so ppl just don't care when they succeed or the game is too short.

But I think that the SP idea could be balanced, and if it was it would be a great addition to the game!

[RagingAlien]

I'd like to know what people think my pack idea, as i said on the first page.

However, i do think that making the packs only here would ALSO not be fair to the Kongregaters. Anyone else here from Kong can also probably tell that features that are only in another site (particularly features that can give an edge, even in the start) are also not that welcome.

[ddevans96]

 / is very direct synergy
 / is the opposite those, and has some direct synergy hidden in there.
 / is also pretty direct, and won't do bad at all.
 / also opposite. Will probably end up being the strongest starter pack with strong stalling and rushing cards.

and have better synergy than and , at least unupped.

[YoungSot]

I'd like to know what people think my pack idea, as i said on the first page.

However, i do think that making the packs only here would ALSO not be fair to the Kongregaters. Anyone else here from Kong can also probably tell that features that are only in another site (particularly features that can give an edge, even in the start) are also not that welcome.

Assuming you charge Electrum and not real money for the packs, I don't think anyone on kongregate would have a problem with the idea anymore, so I imagine the starterpack option would/should be available on kong as well.

I think that the "basic idea" as laid out by johannhowitzer is very solid. I'm not sure why we would want to group the elements in sets though. Why not just have a starter for each element, composed of enough cards to make a couple basic decks for said element? Then you don't have to decide what elements to group together, and more importantly ppl don't have to pay for an element that they might not even want.

Anyway, I think this is a good idea, so how might we increase it's chances of getting into the game? Perhaps a poll to start?

[johannhowitzer]

and have better synergy than and , at least unupped.

and is even better.

[Astrocyte]

+1 in favor of starter packs. I like the ideas of setting up the packs by elemental themes, using electrum to buy the packs, not including any rares in packs, and having the packs get progressively more expensive / less discounted as you buy more packs. We could avoid "electrum laundering" by having starter pack cards sell back to the bazaar for less than usual.

I don't really get the argument "all the veterans [did something time-consuming and annoying] so all the noobs should have to do it too." The amount of grinding you have to do to participate fully in PvP, tournaments, and events constitutes a ridiculously large barrier to entry. Keeping a mechanic that does a great job of shutting out new players, just because it'll make some people who survived the mechanic mad, is absurd.

Vets will still be distinguished from people who bought starter packs by their larger scores and game totals. If that's not enough, there could be an icon or a different color border on starter pack cards, or some other marker to distinguish them from cards earned by grinding.

Or how about this: A lot of forum users have said they'd like to see more quests added to the game and Zanzarino himself has said he'd like to add more. Suppose you earned starter packs (your first one or two, or maybe all of them) through quests? It's not that different from the cash rewards you get now and it'd still be a reward for time and effort spent.

edited for a couple typos

[Sevs]

I support this 100%. it doesn't give some unfair advantage just takes away grinding.

[mightyforest]

Yes please! I've been trying to get some friends to join me in this awesome game but many are immediately turned off once they realize how much grinding is required to even play unupped tournies....

Having something like this could really help expand the community ^^.

[ninjamaster1991]

What? When I contributed to this board, I imagined the packs as more like the booster packs with random cards in them that are in existance for every material tcg. When did the idea turn into lumps of pre-made decks? I don't really like it.

[Manipul8r]

Astrocyte, Zanzarino already wants to add more quests, but I doubt he will want the basic quests to give rewards as high in Electrum worth as starter packs.

Exactly mightyforset, my little brother is another example of someone who would not play the game without starter packs in that he does not have much time to grind (although he doesn't mind grinding some).  He goes to the most rigorous school in the state, does lots of extra-curriculars, and is trying to get into Julliard.

What? When I contributed to this board, I imagined the packs as more like the booster packs with random cards in them that are in existance for every material tcg. When did the idea turn into lumps of pre-made decks? I don't really like it.

Currently I've been more focused on the basic implementation, figuring out how to make a theoretical starter pack available.  I'll add another poll on what the packs should consist of and how they should be distributed as well.  However, in M:tG and other games with random booster packs, you can't grind cards by playing a lot (well you could, with ante, back in the day).  Since you can earn cards here in EtG, putting a chance of rares/upgraded cards in packs isn't needed, although it could be fun.  Putting random cards in packs could be good, but we'd still have to figure out a few things.

1) Distribution of Elements
a) Choose a pairing/trio and get random cards from each element.
b) Choose a pairing/trio and get a set of cards from each element.
c) Get random cards from random elements.
d) Get random cards with an even distribution of elements.
e) Chance of 'Other' element.
f) Chance of 'semi-rare' (Pharaoh, Arctic Squid, Miracle).

2) Costs and Sell Value.
a) Cost of pack is approximately equivalent to current sell value of cards in pack (e.g., pack costing 2000 would sell for ~2000 if all cards were resold).
b) Cards from packs sell for X% less than cards not in packs.
c) If a money costs were allowed, a $10 will cost ?# in .
d) If money packs an electrum packs are different, what distinctions should they have (e.g., semi-rares only in electrum packs).