Starter Pack

[Manipul8r]

I started playing Elements a while ago, and let me just say I love the game.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to grind enough to play even in unupgraded tournaments, but that's all I really want to do at this point.  I love deckbuilding, and I wish I could play in the upcoming Dragon-based deck tournament, but I lack the card base or time to get it.  I own a business and have to spend my free time wisely.

What I'd like to see is a 'starter pack' that we can buy, consisting of maybe 4-5 of each unupgraded bazaar card.  I'm not asking for rares, or massive amounts of coin, but I'd gladly pay a little to save myself hours and hours of grinding so I can get to the real fun.

I don't think any game designer would refuse money for something that won't ruin anybody's game or be unfair to players who have spent time collecting rares/upgrades.  If just 100 new players per month buy a $20 starter pack, that's $2000/mo for Zanzarino for little to no extra work on his part, just compensation for a great game he's already made.

[Higurashi]

Sure, why not. When it doesn't give anyone an edge, there's no downside to it. All up to zanz. :>

[Dm]

I'd say 3-4 of 6 elements instead of one, where you choose from two Packs. I mean, from all elements may be just a little too much.

[Manipul8r]

I'd say 3-4 of 6 elements instead of one, where you choose from two Packs. I mean, from all elements may be just a little too much.

Maybe, but then I'd just want to buy both packs.  That could be better though, something like $10 for 3 of each bazaar card from 6 elements or $20 for 4 of each bazaar card from all elements.

[teffy]

You want to trade $ or € or other currency for  ?
Starter packs for $ mean  .
That would be a real advantage for real money. The current gifts for money are available other way , and have another value (rarity, special card art and 5$ would be too much for 1299 ).

I think zanz says this:

Elements is a free game and will always be [...]

So I doubt, that zanz will ever make this kind of starter packs.

[Manipul8r]

The game would still be free, and it would not be much of an advantage.  It would really just attract more experienced CCG players.

Elements is a good game appealing to strategy players, CCG players, and grinders.  For those who like grinding, it's already a decent game, but it offers a full fledged forum and wiki to help with strategy.  For those who like strategy games or CCG (which is probably more common than enjoying grinding), there is nothing.  You essentially have to spend massive amounts of time just to have the card base to truly enjoy the game.

I understand if Zanzarino refuses to make the game cost money, but that is not what this is about.  Everyone who doesn't pay will still be playing the exact same game they were before, yet people who don't have the time to grind will be more likely to stick around and play.

I'm not sure how much is equivalent to 3 of each bazaar card of 6 elements is, but it's certainly not that much.

[Higurashi]

I suppose one could approach the money issue with principle. If zanz were to rake in cash from it, it would lose its status of portfolio project that he provides for free to the people. It would become commercial and a change of atmosphere among players would follow. I can really understand a viewpoint like that, especially since the extra income would take time I don't need to sacrifice as I'm already employed.

But that's just speculating for fun.

[johannhowitzer]

Well, I HAD typed out a very long post detailing six starter packs of 60 cards each, but my internet connection broke before I hit "post," so it's lost in the aether.

Here's the basic idea, though:
- Six starter packs with the following elemental pairings:  -  -  -  -  - 
- 60 cards in each pack, including between 2 and 4 copies of each card.  Dragons and shields are always 2 copies, the rest is based on what would usually end up in a good deck.
- Light, Water, and Time contain one copy of Miracle, Arctic Squid, and Pharaoh, respectively, to give new players an opportunity to obtain these cards without rolling the dice, like the choice of rare weapon after the quests.
- Each starter pack may only be bought once on each account.
- Prices start low and end high, to prevent a flooding of each new account with cards from every element:

First pack costs  100
Second pack costs  250
Third pack costs  500
Fourth pack costs  1000
Fifth pack costs  1500
Sixth pack costs  2000

I noticed that the price of the packs I designed hovered around 2500 if bought one card at a time, so 2000 is about as high as you can go without it not being a discount.

[RagingAlien]

The biggest problem i see with this is Kongregate. there is now growing a strict policy from the players for ACTUAL free games. Oh sure, they still play pay-to-win games, but doesn't mean they wouldn't like much more a fullly free game. even though pay-to-save-time isn't very frowned upon, it would be best not to risk it.

I'll be frank. This game is just amazing. It has depth and character. It doesn't try to money-grab like the other "multiplayer" games on Kong.

See? this is one of the top rated comments, with 2148 votes up.

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IF, however, it gets added, i'd like to see 8 types of packs:

Neutral: 
Good:
Evil:
Order: 
Disorder: 
Elemental: 
General 1: 
General 2: 

Each having a total of 60 cards.

General 1 and 2 would have elements in accordance to the way shown on "Create Account", and the others i think are rather obvious.
Having 60 cards total means 30 cards per element in Neutral; 20 cards pere element in Good and Evil; 15 cards per element in Order, Disorder and Elemental; and 10 cards per element in General 1 and 2.

Allowing for a nice separation in elements and the way they are seen by people. Notice, however, that the 4 basic elements are only in Elemental and Generals, due to the fact of them not fitting in any other property.

[Manipul8r]

I don't know if the Kongregate opinions are that important, but wouldn't it be possible to only offer the card pack outside of Kongregate?  There are already differences in playability between the Kongregate one and this one, so a simple card pack buying option would not be a big deal in my opinion.

As for pay2play, I can't stress enough that there would be no upgraded cards or rares, it would not give much advantage to the average user, they could still not grind FGs very easily, and as johannhowitzer graciously calculated, the value would not be that much (and he even included some rares). Those who aren't interested in the game enough to consider buying it won't care that it's there to buy, while those interested but unable to afford it will realize that they can get the cards in the packs with time.

[killybob]

Well, I HAD typed out a very long post detailing six starter packs of 60 cards each, but my internet connection broke before I hit "post," so it's lost in the aether.

Here's the basic idea, though:
- Six starter packs with the following elemental pairings:  -  -  -  -  - 
- 60 cards in each pack, including between 2 and 4 copies of each card.  Dragons and shields are always 2 copies, the rest is based on what would usually end up in a good deck.
- Light, Water, and Time contain one copy of Miracle, Arctic Squid, and Pharaoh, respectively, to give new players an opportunity to obtain these cards without rolling the dice, like the choice of rare weapon after the quests.
- Each starter pack may only be bought once on each account.
- Prices start low and end high, to prevent a flooding of each new account with cards from every element:

First pack costs  100
Second pack costs  250
Third pack costs  500
Fourth pack costs  1000
Fifth pack costs  1500
Sixth pack costs  2000

I noticed that the price of the packs I designed hovered around 2500 if bought one card at a time, so 2000 is about as high as you can go without it not being a discount.

i take it these packs are for noobs? this wouldn't work since we've already established that this game will always be free and noobs who need this boost would not have 2000 spare. there are other ways to get round this problem. after a bit of mind storming an answer should come up. the answer is not, however, using real money to get ahead. the main reason for this being a free game is so that people who have money to burn will not be at an unfair advantage over those who do not.

[Manipul8r]

I still do not understand why people think this will give new players some sort of advantage. It will just allow the game to be playable for those without much time to spare.  Just about every facet of this game is fun except grinding.  It makes no sense to me to defend it.  'Getting ahead' is simply not an issue, I'm not going to take my 3 Chrysaora and go beat up the T50 or FGs.

I want to play this game, I really do.  But I probably will not play much, other than messing around on the trainer and checking the Oracle, because I do not enjoy grinding and would like to enjoy my free time.  If I was unemployed or still in school, I surely would not mind grinding, but I run a growing business now.  Back then, if a game was free it was free.  Even if other players had more access to things, as long as I could get it in time, it didn't matter.

Take a look at League of Legends, a free game that rakes in tons of money.  When I started playing, I had not yet started my business, and I only spent $10 on a starter pack there.  I have access to more characters than a lot of people who paid a lot more money.  It's almost amusing to me how much $ people spend on it.  Feel free to laugh at those who buy a 2000 starter pack that you could maybe farm in no time, but why deny them being able to enjoy the game more while contributing to it?

i take it these packs are for noobs? this wouldn't work since we've already established that this game will always be free and noobs who need this boost would not have 2000 spare. there are other ways to get round this problem. after a bit of mind storming an answer should come up. the answer is not, however, using real money to get ahead. the main reason for this being a free game is so that people who have money to burn will not be at an unfair advantage over those who do not.