Solving Fire Stall

[jmdt]

IMO Firestall doesnt need a nerf. Sure its very powerful but so what? It's all part of the card game - adapting to the metagame. Before this speedbow was OP and we pulled through with black holes, mono - entropy and fire stall. So why not fire stall? I've already added 2 anti - Fire Stall decks (discord black hole and fractal pest) to my arsenal to fit the metagame. One thing you should know about me - I never play the deck common in the metagame, I play against it.

The biggest problem with the fire stall is that its and anti rush deck, and most folk around here play rush decks, or psuedo rush decks.  The speedbow is a good example of a psuedo rush deck.  They're about speed, but also pack healthy PC and CC to gain an advantage.  Fire stall's rip thier cheap, low hp critters to shreads.

Fire stall's problem is not so much that it is op, but that it trounces convential decks.  Discord / black hole is a great way of thinking outside the box to beat this (and a fun deck in general).  So as more cards come out with new unconventional strategies, this deck will be even less effective.  If catapult comes out soon, earth/gravity decks will become more popular and with pulvy to remove farenheit and SoG, earthquake to take lances bite away, and the ability to launch cards without firestall having the ability to destroy them first it will be a difficult deck for firestall to contend with.  If catapult is capped at 30hp and thus gives 15 damage, that's 6 armaggios and 1 dragon that would be needed for a kill.  If more disruption cards come out to compliment nightmare, it could be effective as well.  A strategy of earthquake, nightmare, pests and gargoyles, seems pretty anti fire stall already.

[Demagog]

Catapult?

[jmdt]

Catapult?

I've heard from 2-3 places that a catapult card is in the works for gravity. 

[Demagog]

Catapult?

I've heard from 2-3 places that a catapult card is in the works for gravity.

I just saw it mentioned in another thread... guess we'll find out more eventually.

[Malduk]

Umm... Discord wont live long enough to mess with quanta much... Explosion costs ONE , and SoGs will make use of non-fire quanta if you dont soak it up with Black Hole soon enough. Firestall doesnt beat only rush decks, its good against other stall decks too. I mean, it is packing control to be able to stall... If you're not giving it anything to CC, you're not making the deck weaker, you're helping it conserve quanta to bolt you down.
As for catapult, we can only speculate what it'll do to the game now. The card is not even in the trainer yet.

[plastiqe]

Interesting read (Pup said SoG and SNova are op lol).  Anyways my little idea:

All Shards have no effect in pvp, Shards only work when playing against AI.

Since shards have a special status (recieve from donating, no unupped form) they could have special rules about playing them.  This way you'd have a set of upgraded cards that are the anti-FG cards, since they'd only work upped and against the computer.  And if they're only useable in PvE it is ok if they're overpowered, sort of a player handicap for dealing with the FG advantages.

[jmdt]

Interesting read (Pup said SoG and SNova are op lol).  Anyways my little idea:

All Shards have no effect in pvp, Shards only work when playing against AI.

Since shards have a special status (recieve from donating, no unupped form) they could have special rules about playing them.  This way you'd have a set of upgraded cards that are the anti-FG cards, since they'd only work upped and against the computer.  And if they're only useable in PvE it is ok if they're overpowered, sort of a player handicap for dealing with the FG advantages.

So basically ban shard from the PvP league or make a PvP3 along with a restricted list.

[Demagog]

All Shards have no effect in pvp, Shards only work when playing against AI.

What are you talking about?

[PuppyChow]

It seems my fire lance suggestion doesn't have much support . For those of you that voted for other options, why not go with the fire lance buff/change? Just curious; maybe I'm missing something, but to me, changing fire lance least effects other decks and would allow for other new and interesting decks.

[the Sage]

All Shards have no effect in pvp, Shards only work when playing against AI.

What are you talking about?

He's not stating, he's proposing. So basically, he suggests we remove the shards from PvP play altogether.

[Hodari]

Make fire lance change to "Target creature gains +2/-3 for every 10 fire quanta in your possession."

Another option is that since none of the cards are OP by themself, but only the combination of them is, find some way to reduce the effectiveness of that combination.  For example with fire lance(and other pump spells as well), make it so they do still do the same amount of damage they do now and same cost, but they consume all quanta of that element once used(or at least whatever multiple of 10 that you have available, so if you have 56 left after paying the cost of it, it uses up 50 of them).  This would mean each one individually is still as effective as it is now, but you couldn't use 4 of them in one turn as effectively to instantly kill someone.  They could still be used fairly effectively against creatures since most have relatively low hp and would only need to wait a couple turns in between uses to have enough to kill them and they would still even be usable as a way to finish off another player, but you would have to find some other way to deal most of the damage to them first.

[Lluis83]

The deck is effective because:


   1. It is mono color and unless a discord it doesn't have quantum problems.

  2. It doesn't have creatures, so decks that carry a lot of CC doesn't work against him.

  3. It's adaptative versus the size of the other deck. If the deck is less than 40 cards, it means it can use all his strenght only to resist, if the opponent deck is more than 40 cards, it's time enought to save quanta.

  4.Unless Jade Shields or Mirror Shield, there is no way to deal against spells in this game, and that spells are strong ones: explosions, fire lances, elixirs..  In other games, you can do things in the turn of the oponnet and play countercards to spells.


  5. All the cards works very well together.



I think that nerfing cards is not the solution of the problem. The problem is that the pool of cards in the game i very low, and it's difficults to find synergies and no one of the other elements in his own have cards to deal with all problems like fire has. I think that with pendulum, duo and trio decks will have a big push and new ways of fighting will appear.

And you can play all the AI levels and PVP1 and PVP2, and this deck is only used in pvp2 so nerfing cards make problems to the usual players who grind against the AI.

Also I don't understant that crusade against the Shards of Gratitude. Shards can be destroyed, and stolen, and at most with 6 , that it is not very usual to have six shards in the board at same time, they heal you 30 in a turn. If your deck is not able to destroy the shards or to do more than 20-30 damage a turn in the midlegame, it is because you are used to win games with early rushing decks that lose firepower when the game last longer. And if all people uses that kind of decks, you can make a deck with mirror shields, protected eternity and kill your oponent of boredom.