Solving Fire Stall

[PuppyChow]

Well it looks like SoG is getting a nerf. Just checked the trainer and it's cost is 3 now. I was going to post this in the Card Changes section but wasn't sure if that was an official thread to be updated by anyone in particular.

I tested a fire stall a little bit. SoG costing 3 doesn't hurt it that much. If we want to make fire stall unable to utilize it, it needs to be nerfed even more, or changed from nice amount of healing for a fairly low cost to a semi nice amount of healing for a very low cost.

[MrBlonde]

Well it looks like SoG is getting a nerf. Just checked the trainer and it's cost is 3 now. I was going to post this in the Card Changes section but wasn't sure if that was an official thread to be updated by anyone in particular.

I tested a fire stall a little bit. SoG costing 3 doesn't hurt it that much. If we want to make fire stall unable to utilize it, it needs to be nerfed even more, or changed from nice amount of healing for a fairly low cost to a semi nice amount of healing for a very low cost.

That's what i figured. So basically this just nerfs FG farming a little more.

[the Sage]

If we wanted to nerf SoG (which I fully believe is what you need to do to fix this), this is what I'd do:
Modify SoG so that it heals 1 less for every SoG you already have in play:

1 SoG: heal 5 hp per turn
2 SoGs: heal 9 hp per turn
3 SoGs: heal 12 hp per turn
4 SoGs: heal 14 hp per turn
5 or 6 SoGs: heal 15 hp per turn

That way, spamming them doesn't work as well anymore, but getting a single one out will still protect you a decent bit.

[Malduk]

Rainbow FG decks (or any rainbow decks) will hardly notice this change. Sure, if you're not careful with playing them, it may take away one of that type of quanta you're waiting to fill, but overall, paying for ANY shard was never much of a problem even for mono decks. I dont see it a real nerf as I dont think I'll even bother to reconsider the number of SoGs in my decks if that change goes live.

"Official" thread on this change would be nice.

[twinsbuster]

This is fine as-is, we need this choice in the poll

I'm sure rainbow decks need nerf far before fire stall

[PuppyChow]

This is fine as-is, we need this choice in the poll

I'm sure rainbow decks need nerf far before fire stall

If you played in the upgraded metagame, you'd understand it ISN'T fine as is. But I'll add the choice anyway.

[twinsbuster]

While Puppy may have found the fire stall decks to require being considered in every match, I found the same was true for speed rainbows. If your deck can't beat a speed rainbow, you probably shouldn't use it. At the moment, I'd say speed rainbows are more of a problem than fire stalls.

If you played in the upgraded metagame, you'd understand it ISN'T fine as is. But I'll add the choice anyway.

Obiviously rainbow is much more likely to be a problem than firestall. What I can see is majority are rainbow but not firestall in the metagame. Why prevent fire decks from using SoG but not rainbow? Because most of you are using rainbow decks and want to nerf other decks? It makes no sense.

[PuppyChow]

While Puppy may have found the fire stall decks to require being considered in every match, I found the same was true for speed rainbows. If your deck can't beat a speed rainbow, you probably shouldn't use it. At the moment, I'd say speed rainbows are more of a problem than fire stalls.

If you played in the upgraded metagame, you'd understand it ISN'T fine as is. But I'll add the choice anyway.

Obiviously rainbow is much more likely to be a problem than firestall. What I can see is majority are rainbow but not firestall in the metagame. Why prevent fire decks from using SoG but not rainbow? Because most of you are using rainbow decks and want to nerf other decks? It makes no sense.

Speedbows are another problem, but do indeed have more counters than fire stall depending on the build:
-Mono entropy (antimatters)
-Aether/Earth (sometimes; depends on build)
-Black hole decks
-Immo decks (sometimes; depends on build)
And can also be very vulnerable to bad draws. Granted, there aren't many, but I may be missing a few, and those decks are much better overall than the counters to fire stall.

 However, you're mixing up normal rainbows with speedbows. Speedbows don't use SoG at all. The types of rainbows that use sogs aren't a problem at all.

[Demagog]

While Puppy may have found the fire stall decks to require being considered in every match, I found the same was true for speed rainbows. If your deck can't beat a speed rainbow, you probably shouldn't use it. At the moment, I'd say speed rainbows are more of a problem than fire stalls.

If you played in the upgraded metagame, you'd understand it ISN'T fine as is. But I'll add the choice anyway.

Obiviously rainbow is much more likely to be a problem than firestall. What I can see is majority are rainbow but not firestall in the metagame. Why prevent fire decks from using SoG but not rainbow? Because most of you are using rainbow decks and want to nerf other decks? It makes no sense.

Speedbows are another problem, but do indeed have more counters than fire stall depending on the build:
-Mono entropy (antimatters)
-Aether/Earth (sometimes; depends on build)
-Black hole decks
-Immo decks (sometimes; depends on build)
And can also be very vulnerable to bad draws. Granted, there aren't many, but I may be missing a few, and those decks are much better overall than the counters to fire stall.

 However, you're mixing up normal rainbows with speedbows. Speedbows don't use SoG at all. The types of rainbows that use sogs aren't a problem at all.

My point was that, just like fire stall, you have to take a deck that can beat speed rainbows. Pretty much everyone has one, and pretty much everyone uses it at least once per match. Some use it twice.

The combination of cards that go into speed rainbows is just as "broken" as the combination of cards that go into fire stalls.

[PuppyChow]

While Puppy may have found the fire stall decks to require being considered in every match, I found the same was true for speed rainbows. If your deck can't beat a speed rainbow, you probably shouldn't use it. At the moment, I'd say speed rainbows are more of a problem than fire stalls.

If you played in the upgraded metagame, you'd understand it ISN'T fine as is. But I'll add the choice anyway.

Obiviously rainbow is much more likely to be a problem than firestall. What I can see is majority are rainbow but not firestall in the metagame. Why prevent fire decks from using SoG but not rainbow? Because most of you are using rainbow decks and want to nerf other decks? It makes no sense.

Speedbows are another problem, but do indeed have more counters than fire stall depending on the build:
-Mono entropy (antimatters)
-Aether/Earth (sometimes; depends on build)
-Black hole decks
-Immo decks (sometimes; depends on build)
And can also be very vulnerable to bad draws. Granted, there aren't many, but I may be missing a few, and those decks are much better overall than the counters to fire stall.

 However, you're mixing up normal rainbows with speedbows. Speedbows don't use SoG at all. The types of rainbows that use sogs aren't a problem at all.

My point was that, just like fire stall, you have to take a deck that can beat speed rainbows. Pretty much everyone has one, and pretty much everyone uses it at least once per match. Some use it twice.

The combination of cards that go into speed rainbows is just as "broken" as the combination of cards that go into fire stalls.

I know. I agree speedbow is OP, but I'd say the culprit for THAT is supernova, since that's what the speedbow uses to get its creatures out fast, and I think the best way to nerf it is to nerf supernova, since that's a case where there IS an OP card as the culprit.

However, even though everyone uses one, the decks that counter it also counter other decks as well; the counters to fire stall aren't as good against non fire stall decks.

[Malduk]

I agree with Puppy on that one. Speed Rainbow decks are beatable by larger variety of "viable" decks than Firestall, and could be easily "fixed" by slowing down Supernova with a smallish nerf.

[WakSkylicker]

IMO Firestall doesnt need a nerf. Sure its very powerful but so what? It's all part of the card game - adapting to the metagame. Before this speedbow was OP and we pulled through with black holes, mono - entropy and fire stall. So why not fire stall? I've already added 2 anti - Fire Stall decks (discord black hole and fractal pest) to my arsenal to fit the metagame. One thing you should know about me - I never play the deck common in the metagame, I play against it.