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Offline rosutosefiTopic starter

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Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522113#msg522113
« on: July 15, 2012, 03:54:08 am »
"Shard of Focus don't care. Shard of focus don't give a s***. It just takes what it wants."

We can't deny that there is a problem with shards. Shards are necessary because they give elements flexibility in the game. But the problem is that they're too strong and you can make a deck that revolves around them. That's kinda silly, IMO. Shards, as the name implies, are little support cards that could be added to strengthen your deck and never the cards where your deck is Focused on. After the shards were introduced, they dominated the metagame. So here's my proposal: minimizing the shards.

The "minimized" shards will have smaller costs and weaker effects. Enough to give what your element needs, but not enough so that you can just run 6 of them and beat the enemy while yelling some kind of trololo language. I firmly believe that they should NOT be scrapped off, because we all agree that elements like life, water, time and light need some kind of PC, right?

So here goes the proposed changes:
All shards will have 3 :rainbow | 1 :rainbow cost

 :aether: Add 3|0 and wisdom status to an immaterial creature.
        Yes, a pure nerf. It's a momentum with 3 more attack and random cost. If you say that it's weak because it can be reflected, I should let you know that these cards do not randomly play themselves when you add them to your deck. The more you know.


 :air: Airborne creatures gain 15% chance to deal critical strike and  :air creatures gain 15% chance to evade targeting spells. Critical strike ignores shields and deal +50% damage.

Spoiler for WHY???:
Calculations are based on 4 SoFr's for easy calculation.

Evasion = Semi immaterial. In comparison to immateriality, it has its pros (still buffable with a wide range of spells) and cons (RoF and Thunderstorm). This is a huge thing. Quintessence costs 4|3, and blessing 3|3 buff costs 3|2. In comparison with nightfall, which costs 3|4 and gives 1|1 | 2|1, a spell spread on creatures theoretically has its effects diminished by 2/3. A buff comparable to quintessence (let's assume ~3|~2 cost) spread on air creatures should have 3 cards + ~9|~6 elemental cost.

Critical strike = 1.5x damage + shield bypass. Let's just assume airborne creatures have 6 damage on average (dragons, don't argue!). This has a value of 3 damage + shield bypass. In comparison with Chaos Power + Momentum, which is 2 cards +  :entropy:gravity for 4|4 + shield bypass, 100% critical strike should cost around 2 cards + 1 elemental cost. Spread it again (this time, on airborne creatures, which has a wider range compared to only  :darkness :death for Nightfall|Eclipse) and you get 6 cards + 3 elemental cost.

And a grand total of 9 cards + ~12|~9 elemental cost for 4 cards + 20|12 rainbow cost. Silly.And note that I was very forgiving on my calculations there.


 :darkness: Reduces enemy HP by 1 and max HP by 3 (5 if mark is  :darkness) each turn. Will not push max HP below current HP.
        Does its job better and will not force you to make a SoV-only deck.


 :death: Avoid death for a turn. If you receive a fatal hit, 1HP is left.
       It does not drain quanta or HP anymore (except for the 3|1 cost) and may be slightly overpowered. It's a mini untargetable dim shield.


 :earth: Could be something like this: Temper your shield. 50% chance to increase DR by 1.
        SoI is silly. Building a deck around shards? Just no. We're not playing Shards: The Game. And it hardly benefits earth. Bad mechanic. Baad.

Spoiler for WHY??? But SoI is fun! I hate you!!!!!11!1!eleven!:
I thought I should write more about this. What's the only element that does not have a shard? Earth. "But SoI exists you idiot!" No. SoI is never close to being an earth shard. Every shard gives benefits to the element that uses it to some extent. Even SoFo is a very good card with nice thematics when placed in mono-gravity. Just not SoI. Do you add earth cards to a deck with SoI? No. Do you use SoI in your mono-earth? No. Does your SoI rainbow really represent earth as an element? Not really. Is there any synergy existing between SoI and earth cards? None. Is SoI really an earth shard? If I label you as a fluffy dog, are you a fluffy dog?

 :entropy: Add 3 random unupgraded cards to your hand. First one is always entropy.
        This is a nerf. You can't get upped cards anymore even with the upgraded version. Unupped did not need a nerf, upped did.


 :fire: Same.
        I don't think it needs a nerf...


 :gravity: Permanent. Sacrifice to destroy a target permanent and generate a Geode. Has a 2-turn summoning sickness.
        Geode is a creature with 5 :gravity cost, no attack and 30HP. Only gravity and fire could make use of it so why not?


 :life: Regenerate 3HP/turn. If mark is life, it enters with 3 counters and heals 1/counter.
        Sort of a buff. PC resistance ftw!


 :light: Increase current HP and max HP by 12. Max HP increase is 22 if mark of light.
        Kind of a nerf. It has a smaller cost, so be happy! Reason behind the nerf is that it overshadows heal and other healing cards. Now Holy Light is even MORE useless.


 :time: Set ability cost to 0. Time creatures can use skills immediately.
        Well, you can still do the multiple dragon thing, but you can only generate 1 per SoR. No worries, it has only 1 cost anyway, it's not like it's gonna nerf an uber card combo. Ohwait.


 :water: Same as current SoP, but has a max of 5 turns.
        It's too good at stallbreaking in its current form. What annoys me is the fact that only one of these may hand you the win against a stall. I'll let it stay at 5 turns. Still better compared to nightfall. Oh you silly card...


One more reason I have been and will always be complaining about is that some shards are only good in rainbows.
I need a ton of help here. I'm terribad at card ideas.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 07:50:57 am by rosutosefi »
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Offline Annele

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522118#msg522118
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2012, 04:27:15 am »
This is... one way to balance shards. I personally really like the SoF nerf, how it is a perm that is sacrificed, though I am not sure what you mean by geode. I could also just turn into a BH like the current one. Some of the others seem a bit iffy however. For example the SoG one, is purify really that much of a benefit? 3/4 would be fine.

Another option, the one I thought when I saw the subject of the thread, is to only allow 2 - 4 of each in a deck.
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Offline rosutosefiTopic starter

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522119#msg522119
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 04:46:04 am »
This is... one way to balance shards. I personally really like the SoF nerf, how it is a perm that is sacrificed, though I am not sure what you mean by geode. I could also just turn into a BH like the current one. Some of the others seem a bit iffy however. For example the SoG one, is purify really that much of a benefit? 3/4 would be fine.

Another option, the one I thought when I saw the subject of the thread, is to only allow 2 - 4 of each in a deck.

Yes, the SoG is kinda weak. But the idea is making it untargetable with mark of life. And the geode is simply a "token" creature with a large amount of HP for various illegal gravy activities. Limiting to 2-4 shards may not be effective. 2-3 of the current silly SoFo's are enough in a deck.
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Offline Annele

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522124#msg522124
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 05:08:15 am »
This is... one way to balance shards. I personally really like the SoF nerf, how it is a perm that is sacrificed, though I am not sure what you mean by geode. I could also just turn into a BH like the current one. Some of the others seem a bit iffy however. For example the SoG one, is purify really that much of a benefit? 3/4 would be fine.

Another option, the one I thought when I saw the subject of the thread, is to only allow 2 - 4 of each in a deck.

Yes, the SoG is kinda weak. But the idea is making it untargetable with mark of life. And the geode is simply a "token" creature with a large amount of HP for various illegal gravy activities. Limiting to 2-4 shards may not be effective. 2-3 of the current silly SoFo's are enough in a deck.

SoF would still need a nerf, it was just a suggestion to balance the rest of them.
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Offline esran

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522127#msg522127
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 05:26:01 am »
maybe only allow 3 of each shard in a deck. that would kill the sosacdials at least, but sof would still be OP. i think they should drop sof entirely and make a new shard.

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522128#msg522128
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 05:35:19 am »
All shards will have 1 elemental (or maybe 3 :rainbow cost?) | 1 :rainbow cost
 :aether: Add 3|0 and wisdom status to an immaterial creature. Yes, a pure nerf.
 :air: Airborne creatures gain 15% chance to deal critical strike and 15% chance to evade targeting spells. Critical strike ignores shields and deal
        +40% damage. 75% if it is an  :air creature
 :darkness: Shard of Void is a bad mechanic IMO. It's built so that you will have to use only that card (and some other finisher) to kill the enemy.
 :death: Avoid death for a turn. If you receive a fatal hit, 1HP is left.
 :earth: SoI is silly. Could be something like this: Temper your shield. 50% chance to increase DR by 1.
 :entropy: Add 3 random unupgraded cards to your hand. First one is always entropy.
 :fire: Same? I dunno.
 :gravity: Permanent. Sacrifice to destroy a target permanent and generate a Geode. (5 :gravity, 0|30 creature)
 :life: Regenerate 3 HP/turn. If mark is life, acts as a spell and adds 3 purify counters instead (does not remove poison but subtracts from poison
        counter)
 :light: Increase max HP by 14. 18 if mark of light.
 :time: Set ability cost to 0. Time creatures can use skills immediately.
 :water: Same as current SoP, but has a max of 4 turns.

INCOMING!!!!!

:aether Seems like a reasonable change.  The problem in my mind with this card, though, is not the +4 attack, it's the fact that the creature is unkillable and unblockable except with reflective shields, which are almost useless in most other contexts
 :air I'm actually okay with the way the air shard is now.  It benefits all elements, since every element has at least something that's airborne (dragon) and I think most of them have at least one other flying creature, and as the game expands, more flying creatures will be created.  The evasion currently only applies to air, and I think that's reasonable as a 'good for all, better for air' clause
 :darkness If this reduced current hp as well as max hp, it would be much more usable.  As is, I don't really see it used effectively except in a few arena decks, and even most of those can't make too much use of it.  If that change were made, it might also be necessary to reduce the drain to 1hp/2hp for dark, but that would need testing
 :death I have no idea what to do with this one.  It's horribly overpowered.  However, your solution basically turns it into an extremely expensive, slightly better (minus the cantrip) sundial, which isn't that impressive.  Perhaps rather than reversing all damage dealt to you, it merely prevents all damage and healing dealt to you while it is up.  This would make it harder to chain them, because you'd have to heal in between, and the opponent would get one turn in between you playing them and healing to do stuff
 :earth The trouble with this shard is that it's almost completely useless outside of a dedicated shard golem deck, but that deck is extremely powerful.  The biggest problem is the immortality granted by having shard of wisdom in the shard golem.  Perhaps the immortality granted by SoW should be changed to something else?  Also, the shard golem gaining adrenaline from SoGs is totally pointless, since it's usually big enough that it gains zero or virtually zero bonus from this
 :entropy This one's deceptively powerful; even random cards are usually pretty good.  A 3 for 1 card advantage is ALWAYS a fantastic effect.  (like my current avatar :D )  The first card always being entropy is a good way to keep it benefitting one element more, although this card is awfully hard to use outside rainbows.  (impossible to use effectively outside rainbows? :p )  Nerfing it to two cards drawn (one possible solution) might make it too weak, and the other easy nerf, making it cost more, doesn't hurt the rainbows it's going to be used in 99% of the time very much.  Also, I know this next suggestion is a buff, not a nerf, but why not be able to get nymphs from this shard, even if it were at the reduced odds the oracle provides?  Heck, it could just call the oracle function 3 times to get your cards. (and have the first be entropy)
 :fire This one seems fairly reasonable.  The caster controls when it's played, but it's always either card disadvantage for the caster, or at best neutral (if opponent fills their hand and thus skips their next draw) so I think it's fairly balanced, and the fire mark clause is a good one.
 :gravity Broken.  Broken.  BROKEN.  It overshadows every other PC card in the game.  I no longer even use explosions or steals in monos; I just use this, that's how bad it is :p  Getting a black hole at the end is kind of like a kick in the balls after you've been beaten and robbed.  It needs something big to balance it (or a redesign) like requiring a sacrifice of one of your own permanents to destroy another.  Even destroying a random opponent's permanent isn't a big enough nerf; I'd still run this card.  The idea of an 'other' card to destroy permanents is a good one, but not when it's better than every elemental permanent removal card in the game.  (with the possible exception of pulverizer, which is much harder to fit into a deck)
 :life This is balanced, and maybe even a little weak after the last nerf.  I used to use it all the time, but I haven't used it since the nerf at all.  One of the problems it has is that in life decks it competes with feral bond already.  Perhaps a simple -1 to cost on SoG would be fair?
 :light This card is reasonably balanced, but the main problem is that it overshadows most other healing cards, like holy flash, luciferin, and even heal in many decks.  The change to 16//24 hp for light from 20 across the board was a good one.  The problem might be more with most other healing spells (holy flash, luciferin) being underpowered.  Something like holy flash seems great on paper (10 hp healing for 0 in any element, and removal vs death/dark) but when you can just use this shard instead, somehow holy flash never makes it into my serious decks. 
 :time This card is balanced, but there's one thing that really bugs me about it, and that's how you can spam them on one time creature and activate it four, six, eight, etc times a turn, as you spam SoR on the creature.  (c.f. instosis)  The card specifically says that the time creature can activate its ability twice the first turn, not 'two more times each time SoR is cast'.  That one change would kill the most overpowered FG killer we have right now, instosis.
 :water A 4 turn time limit is probably reasonable, although I don't really see it being necessary.  I don't see this card used a lot, and when I do, it's not usually for more than a few turns, anyway.  As an aside, I tried making a dedicated monowater deck using this card, and while it was moderately effective in pvp2, I found that even the last clause did not make inundation worth using :p  Inundation is just so hard to trigger, even with the buff to kill creatures past 5 instead of past 7 on each side.

Offline mesaprotector

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522129#msg522129
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 05:43:30 am »
I like your SoFo change! The SoR one too, I'm not a fan of the whole chaining thing (which IMO doesn't even make sense thematically). The rest, on the other hand, just seem unneeded to me. SoI is not silly, it's awesome and underused. And there's nothing wrong with a card that makes you build a deck around it - Fractal, Sky Blitz, Dim Shield - a lot of other cards are that way. SoV is fine and interesting. The others I don't mind too much, but I'd say that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522132#msg522132
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2012, 06:01:52 am »
Well, when it really comes down to it, the only ones I really don't like are focus and sacrifice, because they make so many other decks unplayable.  Before shard of sacrifice existed, I had an immorush in arena get something like a 75-2 record.  (it'll be in my signature thread, somewhere...)  I made basically the same deck afterward, and it completely bombed, because everyone was using SoSa to farm the arena :p  The purify and shard of patience changes were definitely a step in the right direction, but it wasn't enough to prevent shard of sacrifice dominating most decks. 

Shard of focus is just as bad, probably worse, because it's even easier to use in almost any deck.  At least the quanta cost of shard of sacrifice means that it's impractical in certain decks, like rainbow control, firestall, etc, but shard of focus you can put in anything, and it will be better than any other PC.  An 'other' PC card should be somewhere on the power level of butterfly effect; usable, does the job, but nobody would call it overpowered.  In fact, as I mentioned, it should probably be lower; an 'other' card should be weaker than most of the elemental cards doing the same thing, so as not to overshadow them. 

Shard of Gratitude, for instance, is great in something like firestall, but stupid in monolight, where sancs are much stronger, and that's how a shard should be, giving an effect (in this case, healing) to all elements, but not overshadowing the healing existing in elements where that is a strong point.

And yeah, the shard of readiness stacking thing really bugs me, but other than that, I'm perfectly fine with this card.

Offline Cheesy111

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522142#msg522142
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2012, 06:43:45 am »
Spoiler for Hidden:
All shards will have 1 elemental (or maybe 3 :rainbow cost?) | 1 :rainbow cost
 :aether: Add 3|0 and wisdom status to an immaterial creature. Yes, a pure nerf.
 :air: Airborne creatures gain 15% chance to deal critical strike and 15% chance to evade targeting spells. Critical strike ignores shields and deal
        +40% damage. 75% if it is an  :air creature
 :darkness: Shard of Void is a bad mechanic IMO. It's built so that you will have to use only that card (and some other finisher) to kill the enemy.
 :death: Avoid death for a turn. If you receive a fatal hit, 1HP is left.
 :earth: SoI is silly. Could be something like this: Temper your shield. 50% chance to increase DR by 1.
 :entropy: Add 3 random unupgraded cards to your hand. First one is always entropy.
 :fire: Same? I dunno.
 :gravity: Permanent. Sacrifice to destroy a target permanent and generate a Geode. (5 :gravity, 0|30 creature)
 :life: Regenerate 3 HP/turn. If mark is life, acts as a spell and adds 3 purify counters instead (does not remove poison but subtracts from poison
        counter)
 :light: Increase max HP by 14. 18 if mark of light.
 :time: Set ability cost to 0. Time creatures can use skills immediately.
 :water: Same as current SoP, but has a max of 4 turns.

INCOMING!!!!!

:aether Seems like a reasonable change.  The problem in my mind with this card, though, is not the +4 attack, it's the fact that the creature is unkillable and unblockable except with reflective shields, which are almost useless in most other contexts
 :air I'm actually okay with the way the air shard is now.  It benefits all elements, since every element has at least something that's airborne (dragon) and I think most of them have at least one other flying creature, and as the game expands, more flying creatures will be created.  The evasion currently only applies to air, and I think that's reasonable as a 'good for all, better for air' clause
 :darkness If this reduced current hp as well as max hp, it would be much more usable.  As is, I don't really see it used effectively except in a few arena decks, and even most of those can't make too much use of it.  If that change were made, it might also be necessary to reduce the drain to 1hp/2hp for dark, but that would need testing
 :death I have no idea what to do with this one.  It's horribly overpowered.  However, your solution basically turns it into an extremely expensive, slightly better (minus the cantrip) sundial, which isn't that impressive.  Perhaps rather than reversing all damage dealt to you, it merely prevents all damage and healing dealt to you while it is up.  This would make it harder to chain them, because you'd have to heal in between, and the opponent would get one turn in between you playing them and healing to do stuff
 :earth The trouble with this shard is that it's almost completely useless outside of a dedicated shard golem deck, but that deck is extremely powerful.  The biggest problem is the immortality granted by having shard of wisdom in the shard golem.  Perhaps the immortality granted by SoW should be changed to something else?  Also, the shard golem gaining adrenaline from SoGs is totally pointless, since it's usually big enough that it gains zero or virtually zero bonus from this
 :entropy This one's deceptively powerful; even random cards are usually pretty good.  A 3 for 1 card advantage is ALWAYS a fantastic effect.  (like my current avatar :D )  The first card always being entropy is a good way to keep it benefitting one element more, although this card is awfully hard to use outside rainbows.  (impossible to use effectively outside rainbows? :p )  Nerfing it to two cards drawn (one possible solution) might make it too weak, and the other easy nerf, making it cost more, doesn't hurt the rainbows it's going to be used in 99% of the time very much.  Also, I know this next suggestion is a buff, not a nerf, but why not be able to get nymphs from this shard, even if it were at the reduced odds the oracle provides?  Heck, it could just call the oracle function 3 times to get your cards. (and have the first be entropy)
 :fire This one seems fairly reasonable.  The caster controls when it's played, but it's always either card disadvantage for the caster, or at best neutral (if opponent fills their hand and thus skips their next draw) so I think it's fairly balanced, and the fire mark clause is a good one.
 :gravity Broken.  Broken.  BROKEN.  It overshadows every other PC card in the game.  I no longer even use explosions or steals in monos; I just use this, that's how bad it is :p  Getting a black hole at the end is kind of like a kick in the balls after you've been beaten and robbed.  It needs something big to balance it (or a redesign) like requiring a sacrifice of one of your own permanents to destroy another.  Even destroying a random opponent's permanent isn't a big enough nerf; I'd still run this card.  The idea of an 'other' card to destroy permanents is a good one, but not when it's better than every elemental permanent removal card in the game.  (with the possible exception of pulverizer, which is much harder to fit into a deck)
 :life This is balanced, and maybe even a little weak after the last nerf.  I used to use it all the time, but I haven't used it since the nerf at all.  One of the problems it has is that in life decks it competes with feral bond already.  Perhaps a simple -1 to cost on SoG would be fair?
 :light This card is reasonably balanced, but the main problem is that it overshadows most other healing cards, like holy flash, luciferin, and even heal in many decks.  The change to 16//24 hp for light from 20 across the board was a good one.  The problem might be more with most other healing spells (holy flash, luciferin) being underpowered.  Something like holy flash seems great on paper (10 hp healing for 0 in any element, and removal vs death/dark) but when you can just use this shard instead, somehow holy flash never makes it into my serious decks. 
 :time This card is balanced, but there's one thing that really bugs me about it, and that's how you can spam them on one time creature and activate it four, six, eight, etc times a turn, as you spam SoR on the creature.  (c.f. instosis)  The card specifically says that the time creature can activate its ability twice the first turn, not 'two more times each time SoR is cast'.  That one change would kill the most overpowered FG killer we have right now, instosis.
 :water A 4 turn time limit is probably reasonable, although I don't really see it being necessary.  I don't see this card used a lot, and when I do, it's not usually for more than a few turns, anyway.  As an aside, I tried making a dedicated monowater deck using this card, and while it was moderately effective in pvp2, I found that even the last clause did not make inundation worth using :p  Inundation is just so hard to trigger, even with the buff to kill creatures past 5 instead of past 7 on each side.
Well, when it really comes down to it, the only ones I really don't like are focus and sacrifice, because they make so many other decks unplayable.  Before shard of sacrifice existed, I had an immorush in arena get something like a 75-2 record.  (it'll be in my signature thread, somewhere...)  I made basically the same deck afterward, and it completely bombed, because everyone was using SoSa to farm the arena :p  The purify and shard of patience changes were definitely a step in the right direction, but it wasn't enough to prevent shard of sacrifice dominating most decks. 

Shard of focus is just as bad, probably worse, because it's even easier to use in almost any deck.  At least the quanta cost of shard of sacrifice means that it's impractical in certain decks, like rainbow control, firestall, etc, but shard of focus you can put in anything, and it will be better than any other PC.  An 'other' PC card should be somewhere on the power level of butterfly effect; usable, does the job, but nobody would call it overpowered.  In fact, as I mentioned, it should probably be lower; an 'other' card should be weaker than most of the elemental cards doing the same thing, so as not to overshadow them. 

Shard of Gratitude, for instance, is great in something like firestall, but stupid in monolight, where sancs are much stronger, and that's how a shard should be, giving an effect (in this case, healing) to all elements, but not overshadowing the healing existing in elements where that is a strong point.

And yeah, the shard of readiness stacking thing really bugs me, but other than that, I'm perfectly fine with this card.

Are you talking about upped or unupped? Purify and SoPa pretty much killed SoSac in the unupped metagame.  SoSe is terrible unupped, for example, but quite powerful upped because it's both easier to generate rainbow quanta upped and because 95% of cards are much better/cheaper/faster/stronger upped.  SoR sees use in SoR Pharoah nigh-exclusively, and more than one SOR on a creature is rarely seen, so while I would feel hesitant about nerfing such a restricted and underused card it doesn't really affect anything besides mito-devonian OTK (which is already worse than a normal dragonbow OTK, so....). 

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522147#msg522147
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2012, 06:54:07 am »
So here's my proposal: minimizing the shards.

The "minimized" shards will have smaller costs and weaker effects. Enough to give what your element needs, but not enough so that you can just run 6 of them and beat the enemy while yelling some kind of trololo language. I firmly believe that they should NOT be scrapped off, because we all agree that elements like life, water, time and light need some kind of PC, right?

So here goes the proposed changes:
All shards will have 1 elemental (or maybe 3 :rainbow cost?) | 1 :rainbow cost
This is a good default solution to OP other cards. (Unneeded for balanced other cards) It reigns them into the area where  :rainbow is the least misbehaved.

 :gravity 1 Deflagration ~= 3 :fire + 1 card ~= 2 :fire + 1 turn + 1 card ~= 5 :rainbow + 1 turn + 1 card => Casting Cost = 3 :rainbow, Activation Cost = 2 :rainbow
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Offline rosutosefiTopic starter

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522149#msg522149
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2012, 06:59:42 am »
Edited OP.

Oh noes. Walls and walls of text.

First, SoSac is underpowered unupped. It's only powerful with SoD or the bump in arena HP. What I always used to suggest is basing the damage on 40%|34% of the max HP. But to match the minimizing of the shards, I opted for what I posted instead.
A big problem of SoI is that you have to build a deck based on shards. Nothing earthly. If the people who hates puppies and children insist that this card stays in the game, it should be an  :rainbow shard. We should give earth a real earth shard.
Upped SoSe is powerful. Unupped one is meh. This change kinda balances it.
I always thought that SoG overshadows feral bond, not the other way around.

All others edited into OP.

I like your SoFo change! The SoR one too, I'm not a fan of the whole chaining thing (which IMO doesn't even make sense thematically). The rest, on the other hand, just seem unneeded to me. SoI is not silly, it's awesome and underused. And there's nothing wrong with a card that makes you build a deck around it - Fractal, Sky Blitz, Dim Shield - a lot of other cards are that way. SoV is fine and interesting. The others I don't mind too much, but I'd say that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

SoI is not an earth shard and never close to being one. Just like what I said, shards are supposed to be support cards and from what I hear from the community, that's what they want, and that's why they are banned on almost every tourney ever. SoF, SoP, SoD, SoW, SoFr and upped SoSe needed a nerf. SoR, SoSac and SoV needed some kind of revamp. SoI needed a total rework. The other fixes are not meant to be nerfs but just part of the "minimizing" thing.

Are you talking about upped or unupped? Purify and SoPa pretty much killed SoSac in the unupped metagame.  SoSe is terrible unupped, for example, but quite powerful upped because it's both easier to generate rainbow quanta upped and because 95% of cards are much better/cheaper/faster/stronger upped.  SoR sees use in SoR Pharoah nigh-exclusively, and more than one SOR on a creature is rarely seen, so while I would feel hesitant about nerfing such a restricted and underused card it doesn't really affect anything besides mito-devonian OTK (which is already worse than a normal dragonbow OTK, so....).
Nah, Pharaoh is UP and only made viable by the OP shard. The shard nerf is mitigated by the cost decrease anyway. Sad part is no more twin eggs.

So here's my proposal: minimizing the shards.

The "minimized" shards will have smaller costs and weaker effects. Enough to give what your element needs, but not enough so that you can just run 6 of them and beat the enemy while yelling some kind of trololo language. I firmly believe that they should NOT be scrapped off, because we all agree that elements like life, water, time and light need some kind of PC, right?

So here goes the proposed changes:
All shards will have 1 elemental (or maybe 3 :rainbow cost?) | 1 :rainbow cost
This is a good default solution to OP other cards. (Unneeded for balanced other cards) It reigns them into the area where  :rainbow is the least misbehaved.

 :gravity 1 Deflagration ~= 3 :fire + 1 card ~= 2 :fire + 1 turn + 1 card ~= 5 :rainbow + 1 turn + 1 card => Casting Cost = 3 :rainbow, Activation Cost = 2 :rainbow

Instead of placing an activation cost, I would like to nerf it more instead. I (and a hundred other protesters) really disliked the part where rainbows benefit from the shards instead of the element, so more random cost is a no-go.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 07:32:20 am by rosutosefi »
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Offline mesaprotector

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Re: Shard "Minimizing" https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=42028.msg522221#msg522221
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2012, 03:27:28 pm »
SoP needs a nerf? Are you serious? It's hardly even used as is! I haven't seen SoW or SoFr dominating the metagame, either.

Oh and don't forget, the point of this game, in the end, is to be FUN. SoI decks are very fun!
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