*Author

Offline KeeperofDreamsTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • KeeperofDreams is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Really Zanz?!? Shards were over powered, but not because they were colorless https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45772.msg1029764#msg1029764
« on: January 08, 2013, 04:21:24 am »
Is anyone in agreement with me in totally not understanding what Zanz is doing with shards?
The original (3) Shards were put in as a way of providing abilities to the various colored decks, not anyway to heal to buy some time, gratitudes can help...  etc.
Expanding on that idea, I believe it was stated, he wanted more shards, but with affinities.  This way you can make more combinations, more duos, effective trios, etc.
The only thing, was he broke the game in many ways by making them overpowered.  Shards of Sacrifice first came out, it made killing false gods a joke, I'm certain for that day or two before it got nerfed; a lot of people were mining false gods for virtually free upped cards.  Part of me, regrets missing out, being unable to play consistently during those days.  Same with when the revamped Shard of Readiness came out.  After a while, one would see the same 4 or 5 decks over and ver again in Arena and PVP2, SoR being slightly nerfed for some combinations, still left us with things like Instotis; to keep causing havoc on the false gods.   Then he leaves the game alone for far to long (other than a small patch).

So, what does he do?  Next patch, he makes the Shards cost their affinities color.  In effect, many Shards are no longer useful (As if Life didn't have enough ways to heal already?) or it does not address the problem (Shards of Freedom still make crazy high damage air decks, Shards of Wisdom were already limited to Aether by design anyways.) 

Many of these cards were great concepts as colorless quanta cards to allow for balance across the elements.  They needed tweaking a bit in concept and power.
Take Shard of Focus, it provided perm control of some sort to all elements, not just limited to two and a duo/rainbow using a pulvy.  The problem was it was too much perm control for too cheap.  The Shards should have provided a lowered powered version of it's ability, and a make equal if your mark matched.  So, a Shard of Focus, should have been a 0/1 that died when you used it's ability, for a single destruction point for a cost of 3 colorless 2(if upgraded),  then if your mark is gravity, then give it the ability to generate a black holes.  This way, it's a bit of a lower powered destruction for all colors, giving the opponent time to counter, but also making it more useful for a gravity deck. 

My suggestions were:
Shard of Wisdom,  target creature's damage becomes spell damage, if mark is Aether, target gains Immortal attribute. (Immortal creatures are not targetable)
Shard of Void, keep as is.
Shard of Readiness: target creature's ability cost is reduced by 1, if mark is Time, target creature can use it's ability this turn or a 2nd time this turn. (no two times in on a turn if not previously used or just summoned just 1 time in that case)
Shard of Freedom, All airborne creatures gain a 25% chance to ignore opponents' shield.  If mark is air, a 25% increase to damage as well (effect added up to 4 shards). 
Shard of Divinity, keep as is.
Shard of Patience, creatures do not attack for one turn and gain +2/+2, +3/+3 if mark is water and +5/+5 if creature is in water, SoP is destroyed at your next draw.
Shard of Bravery, keep as is. (Alternatively, each creature gains +1/+0 for each creature in a slot on either of its' side).
Shard of Gratitude, heal for +3, heal all creatures +1 if your mark is Life
Shard of Integrity, keep mostly as is, but add the ability, if is Golem destroyed and mark is Earth, a Shard of Integrity is added back to your hand.
Shard of Focus, explained as above
Shard of Sacrifice, destroy one of your creatures, inflict damage to opponent equivalent to it's attack, if mark is Death, and heal equivalent to it's defense as well.
Shard of Serendipity, draw a random card from the middle of your deck, randomly generate one card in your hand, and if mark is Entropy generate an additional Entropy Card.

Of course, cost should be one to two more colorless the\an the base abilities' -1 if a hobble is in place, +1 if it creates cards as well.  So a Shard of Bravery allows for a draw up to 3 cards like a Electrum hour glasses' ability which costs 1 time.  But it's hobbled by allowing your opponent to draw cards too.  So, this would be 3 + 2(1) - 1 or 4(3) colorless.  Serendipity is a bit similar but less hobbled, it also generates two cards, so 3 + 2(1) + 1 so 6(5) colorless,  shard of gratitude would be 3 + 2(1) or 5(4) colorless (plus or minus for final tweaking.)

This should generate the ability to make duos and trios, support rainbows, increase effectiveness of monos, without making too powerful of a Shard.

But then that's just me and I've already walked away once, it's not my game (meant in both ways.)

EDIT: As an aside, I always thought there should have been a Shard for for the Neutral Cards to make them more useful, called the Shard of Enchantment.  Where it provides an additional ability to each of the neutral cards, it casts protect on the quanta towers, reflect ability on the tower shield, and each weapon get's upgraded to one of the rares.  So the dagger becomes Vampire Dagger, the bow becomes an eagle's eye, etc...  It provides an expensive but useful route to provide different elements access to abilities it would  normally not have access too.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:19:53 am by KeeperofDreams »

Offline dragonsdemesne

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5283
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 63
  • dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!dragonsdemesne shines with the light of the Morning Glory!
  • Leeeeeeeeeeroyyyyyyyyy....
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 1/2014 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2013 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 2/2013 WinnerBattle League 1/2013 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 3/2012 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 2/2012 3rd Place
Re: Really Zanz?!? Shards were over powered, but not because they were colorless https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45772.msg1029780#msg1029780
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 06:13:24 am »
Well, Zanz can do whatever he wants, given that it's his game :)  I too would have preferred to see shards remain colourless but be more balanced, and some of your ideas I like quite a bit.  (though others I'd rather see the originals or something else)  However, from what it seems like, the majority of players like the shards in their respective elements as opposed to being colourless, so I suspect the change is here to stay.  When it comes down to it, zanz will never, ever, EVER please ALL the players; it is simply impossible.  Since I think he has pleased most people, I'm mostly content to leave things alone, and I know my voice won't make any impact on things, anyway, especially against those who support these changes.

I do hope we get some more cards in the 'other' category, though.  I really like the idea of having generic cards available to any class, as long as they're well-balanced.  Take something like Tower Shield or Long Sword; those can be quite useful in the right deck, decent cards in their own right, useful in some elements more than others, but not overpowered in any.  For instance, if you want to play a fire deck and want damage reduction, you can use a tower shield, but you'd never use a tower shield in water or life, for example, as they already have 2 DR shields.  If you want a cheap damage card, long sword is pretty much the most efficient damage dealer for its cost, but you wouldn't use that in darkness or death, for instance, as they already have extremely cheap, powerful weapons, but you might well use it in water or life as part of a rushing tactic, or possibly even gravity or light; even though they have weapons that deal more damage, those weapons cost more to play, so there is a tradeoff you must make.

Offline Mathematistic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 796
  • Country: hk
  • Reputation Power: 11
  • Mathematistic is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.Mathematistic is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.
  • Games are never too easy.
Re: Really Zanz?!? Shards were over powered, but not because they were colorless https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45772.msg1029810#msg1029810
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 08:47:30 am »
The nerf of shards is an attempt to turn shards from multi-use cards to niche cards. However, only a few of them (SoFo, SoSac) are not niche cards at the very first place (I mean 1.31, not your OP SoG). Other shards already have a very limited use.
Well, anyways.

Well, Zanz can do whatever he wants, given that it's his game :)
PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

Offline whatifidogetcaught?

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1501
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 28
  • whatifidogetcaught? is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.whatifidogetcaught? is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.whatifidogetcaught? is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.whatifidogetcaught? is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.whatifidogetcaught? is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Fattest skinny guy you know.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Really Zanz?!? Shards were over powered, but not because they were colorless https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45772.msg1029859#msg1029859
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 02:42:40 pm »
It's a free game, just saying. I like some of your ideas, why not take them to the 1.32? Just with less rage.
A tout le monde, a tout mes amis, je vous aime, je dois partir.

Proud servant of Team :time in War 6.

Offline ElementalDearWatson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 614
  • Reputation Power: 8
  • ElementalDearWatson is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: Really Zanz?!? Shards were over powered, but not because they were colorless https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45772.msg1029892#msg1029892
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 03:38:51 pm »
I'll be honest - I didn't see much point to the Shard of Integrity before this update.  I really don't now.

Offline Jenkar

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4199
  • Country: fr
  • Reputation Power: 58
  • Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.Jenkar is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • Heart's made of shadows
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeChampionship League 2/2013 WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake6th Trials - Master of AirWinner of Revive the Archive 2!Slice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeBeginners League 1/2012 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner5th Trials - Master of AirAvatar of Patience - Winner of the 7 Heavenly Virtues Deck CompetitionBeginners League 3/2011 3rd PlaceC-C-C-Combo Maker Winner!
Re: Really Zanz?!? Shards were over powered, but not because they were colorless https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45772.msg1031508#msg1031508
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2013, 06:09:46 am »
I'll be honest - I didn't see much point to the Shard of Integrity before this update.  I really don't now.

You obviously haven't tried things like
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 6u3 786 786 786 786 786 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7tb 816 816 816 816 816 816 8pm
The madness is in each of us. Close your eyes, sing, and open your webbed wings to the silent winds.
Beautiful art : http://i.imgur.com/eUhyYCC.png

Offline bripod

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 878
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 14
  • bripod is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.bripod is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: Really Zanz?!? Shards were over powered, but not because they were colorless https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45772.msg1031511#msg1031511
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2013, 06:42:25 am »
4 Turns in, and I was like WTF.?.. 3 turns later, I had Won... Thanks Jenks! ;)

Offline Mathematistic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 796
  • Country: hk
  • Reputation Power: 11
  • Mathematistic is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.Mathematistic is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.
  • Games are never too easy.
Re: Really Zanz?!? Shards were over powered, but not because they were colorless https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45772.msg1031513#msg1031513
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2013, 06:47:33 am »
I'll be honest - I didn't see much point to the Shard of Integrity before this update.  I really don't now.

You obviously haven't tried things like
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 6u3 786 786 786 786 786 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7ee 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7nq 7tb 816 816 816 816 816 816 8pm


Maybe he means that the new SoI is so OP, to the point that it is pointless? (jk)
Tbh SoI got a berf - can be played easier, but other shards are (a bit, IMO elemental quanta cost weighs more than lowered cost, esp. SoW) harder to play.
PVE shouldn't be all about copying a deck code and converting time into electrum, score, and potentially rares.
If the only way to derive fun from a game is its PVP content, then non-hardcore players a.k.a. the mass are alienated from the hardcore community.

 

anything
blarg: