Poll

Should momentum+psion(or SoW) reflected by the reflective shield?

Yes, it's momentum, and it should bypass the shield effects.
11 (45.8%)
No, it's spell damage, and it should reflected even it got momentum'd.
13 (54.2%)

Total Members Voted: 24

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Offline choongmyoungTopic starter

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Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542096#msg542096
« on: September 15, 2012, 05:53:34 am »



First, what is momentum?

Charger says "The damage caused by the Sapphire Charger can not be reduced, SHIELDS ARE IGNORED."
Momentum says "The target creature IGNORES SHIELD EFFECTS and gains +1|+1"

Then why momentumed psion's damage is reflected by the shield?



Second, Momentum's concept is ignoring any bad effect from shield, and Quint's concept is ignoring any targetting.
So Momentumed + Quinted creatures shouldn't be CCed from anything.

Then suddenly there was SoW.
So Momentumed + Quinted creature? Let's SoW + Reflective shield! Let them attack their own master!

Seriously, WTF? Are you kidding me?



Momentumed spell damage shouldn't be reflected.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542098#msg542098
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2012, 05:58:27 am »
Spell damage takes priority over momentum. /thread
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Offline choongmyoungTopic starter

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542099#msg542099
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2012, 06:02:31 am »
Quote from: furballdn on September 15, 2012, 05:58:27 am
Spell damage takes priority over momentum. /thread

That's why it's strange.
Now we got the way to CC to momentumed immaterial creatures.
As I said, You Elementsthegame made it(momentum and quint) then broke it.
This should be changed.
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542100#msg542100
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2012, 06:05:16 am »
"That's why it's strange" Not a bug, wording problem.

"Now we got the way to CC momentumed immaterial creatures." Not a bug, it's a feature!

"This should be changed." Your opinion.
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Offline choongmyoungTopic starter

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542101#msg542101
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2012, 06:13:52 am »
Quote from: furballdn on September 15, 2012, 06:05:16 am
"That's why it's strange" Not a bug, wording problem.

"Now we got the way to CC momentumed immaterial creatures." Not a bug, it's a feature!

"This should be changed." Your opinion.

This board exist to collect people's opinion.
And feature? Elementsthegame added a feature (SoW), however deleted a feature (Quint).
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 06:15:35 am by choongmyoung »
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542102#msg542102
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2012, 06:16:52 am »
Quote from: choongmyoung on September 15, 2012, 06:13:52 am
This board exist to collect people's opinion.
That it does. However, your thread does not ask about other people's opinions, instead just stating your own opinion and how you think it is a bug. Perhaps put up a poll or something.
Quote
And feature? Elementsthegame added a feature (SoW), however deleted a feature (Quint).
Quint is not being deleted, there is now just a way to counter momentum+quint, even though SoSac was introduced as a counter before that as well.
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Offline choongmyoungTopic starter

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542103#msg542103
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2012, 06:21:56 am »
Quote from: furballdn on September 15, 2012, 06:16:52 am
Quote from: choongmyoung on September 15, 2012, 06:13:52 am
This board exist to collect people's opinion.
That it does. However, your thread does not ask about other people's opinions, instead just stating your own opinion and how you think it is a bug. Perhaps put up a poll or something.
Quote
And feature? Elementsthegame added a feature (SoW), however deleted a feature (Quint).
Quint is not being deleted, there is now just a way to counter momentum+quint, even though SoSac was introduced as a counter before that as well.

I'm not claiming it's a bug, sorry if seemed that way. I will add a poll.

I hate this thing, it's inelegance and this work leads game to a bad way:
"Do this. Ah, forgot one. THIS is an exception for that."
Now Quint says:
"Target creature cannot be targeted. Ah, forgot one. SoW is an exception for that."
Momentum says:
"Target creature ignores shield effect. Ah, forgot one. Quint+SoW is an exception for that."
These kind of work leads:
"Do this. Ah, forgot one. THIS is and exception for that... but TTHISS, however, is an special exception." and go on.
Pretty bad, isn't it?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 06:27:40 am by choongmyoung »
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542106#msg542106
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2012, 06:34:54 am »
You are correct in saying that this, as OldTrees would probably put it, is inelegant design.

However look at it from the other point of view, now you can counter everything with quint+SoW+reflect!
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Offline choongmyoungTopic starter

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542108#msg542108
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2012, 06:40:36 am »
Quote from: furballdn on September 15, 2012, 06:34:54 am
You are correct in saying that this, as OldTrees would probably put it, is inelegant design.

However look at it from the other point of view, now you can counter everything with quint+SoW+reflect!

Yes Quint + SoW + Reflect can counter everything.
Ah, forgot one, Wasn't Quint designed to avoid targeting (or massive) CC and Momentum designed to avoid shield CC?
Now SoW + Reflect! Quint cannot avoid targeting CC and Momentum cannot avoid shield CC!
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Offline eaglgenes101

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542110#msg542110
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2012, 06:42:52 am »
Quote from: furballdn on September 15, 2012, 06:34:54 am
However look at it from the other point of view, now you can counter everything with quint+SoW+reflect!
Which is precisely the problem. How DO you counter it and still remain competitive?
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542119#msg542119
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2012, 07:06:21 am »
Quote from: eaglgenes101 on September 15, 2012, 06:42:52 am
Quote from: furballdn on September 15, 2012, 06:34:54 am
However look at it from the other point of view, now you can counter everything with quint+SoW+reflect!
Which is precisely the problem. How DO you counter it and still remain competitive?
Can counter everything does not mean that it is invariably powerful. Most reflect decks are often very slow at setting up, requiring a 3 card combo at the least and at least a duo. I can think of many competitive decks that easily counter reflect decks.
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Offline meowww

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Re: Reflecting Momentumed Spell Damage? What did you say? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43459.msg542126#msg542126
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2012, 07:29:55 am »
As a reflect deck user, I can tell you it is REALLY slow to deal with almost any competitive decks.
Of course it counters something, but quite narrow.
It is petty fun though.
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