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Re: Random ideas from the Dragon's Demesne https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31976.msg404950#msg404950
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 10:56:43 pm »
yeah that was probably  exaggerated, given the amount of time and effort to beat a fg compared to a plat arena deck.

Offline RootRanger

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Re: Random ideas from the Dragon's Demesne https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31976.msg404957#msg404957
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2011, 11:04:08 pm »
Quote
Ultrarares: Agreed, though I think Platinum Arena would be fine. Winning 3 matches in a row is not an easy accomplishment to reach.
 

This is not true, since the same kinds of decks are being used in platinum arena over and over there have been decks created to counter 60-70% of them so that even newbs are starting to spam the arena for cards and 10X the score from grinding FGs.
Looking at the top 25 decks, I'm going to estimate that they have about a 7% loss rate, but we'll say 10% just to be safe. Scrolling down the top 250 shows that the win rate doesn't drop much. That's about a 50-60% difference from the number you threw out there. The decks under 250 will likely fall out of the league with 2 or 3 losses. Simply put, your statement has no merit.

Unless you have some data to back up those numbers, I have to assume you just pulled them out of your ass. Spreading misinformation doesn't really help people make the best decisions. It's clear that "newbs" are not farming Platinum (though feel free to link to this Platinum grinder). If they want to farm an arena league, it's far easier to farm Gold as far as electrum gain is concerned, which shows another blatantly false claim in your post.

So, I'll say it again: Platinum League special spin would be an acceptable way to reward players with Ultra-rares.
Sigh...
just...
sigh...

sigh...

I'm not going to waste much time with something that is likely a troll post, so I'll try to make this short.

Firstly, your statistics about the Top 25 are irrelevant because many of the people playing Platinum are completely clueless newbs that lose to even the most ridiculous deck concepts. I've had a 1-hp deck come up with a 50% win rate over two dozen games in Platinum. Instead of accusing someone that is correct about the validity of their statistics, how about you actually try to know what you are talking about. People have reached a 57% Win Rate in Platinum (source) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,30564.0.html), and only two decks were tested for Platinum. A 60-70% win rate is completely realistic, especially once the new shards come out. I wouldn't be surprised if people could get higher.

You also have no idea how to manage distribution of ultra-rares. Currently, marks are the only cards in all of Elements that almost surely shows that the player with it is a good player. If thousands of marks are handed out to idiots that just copy the top forum deck and play for a few hours, there is no longer going to be a card that represents skill. And currently, very few marks are in circulation compared to other rares. Thousands of regular rares are handed out every day, and only 2 marks are handed out every week. Allowing marks to be available to any idiot that copies a skilless platinum grinder and plays for a couple hours is just completely ridiculous.
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Offline dragonsdemesneTopic starter

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Re: Random ideas from the Dragon's Demesne https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31976.msg404965#msg404965
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2011, 11:21:10 pm »
As opposed to any idiot who grinds every tournament with previous tournament winners?  When you have something to say that people actually care about, rather than 'hey look how long my dick is, i have five marks from tournament grinding', then you can post in my threads.

edit: that may have been a bit harsh.  However, I will have to admit that rootranger does have some good points to address.  Anybody can post a good arena deck by looking on the forums, although you'll probably have better luck making your own if you have any idea what you're doing.  Most people can do pretty darned well farming fgs or arena too by copying decks, though at least there, there is the element of play skill, and people are on their own there.  There's more skill in building good decks on your own than playing them in this game, though.

And I do agree that having ultra-rares show up in platinum spins with the same frequency as, say, a pharaoh, is just ridiculous.  That was one reason I proposed a 1:50 chance for it, but even that might make it too easy.  Eventually, though, I hope to see the game grow and hopefully reward skilled players.

And lastly, those two decks that root linked to with 57% and 54% win percentages... I know from my own play experience that there's better decks than those, so farming platinum isn't really an issue once you have enough upgrades.  It might go up with the new shards, but the arena decks will get better with new shards, too, though probably to a lesser degree, since player intelligence > AI.

Offline RootRanger

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Re: Random ideas from the Dragon's Demesne https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31976.msg405003#msg405003
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2011, 12:24:25 am »
As opposed to any idiot who grinds every tournament with previous tournament winners?  When you have something to say that people actually care about, rather than 'hey look how long my dick is, i have five marks from tournament grinding', then you can post in my threads.
Lol at "previous tournament winners". You clearly don't understand tournaments.
The tournaments have creative rules that are a complete change from the metagame in other events, including past tournaments. Copying and pasting the common decks is usually not possible, and when it is, the metagame will have changed enough that the deck you manage to find already on the forums probably won't be good. Even if you somehow find a deck already posted on the forums that is good in the tournament, you still need to be able to predict well, and yes, it involves skill. "Grinding" tournaments isn't possible since there are only two each week.

You have also misunderstood my post. Please read it this time.

And you don't have the right to choose who posts in a thread just because you made this thread. That really doesn't make any sense and I've yet to see a forum that follows that rule.

edit: that may have been a bit harsh.
I'm fine with harshness, but only when you know what you're talking about. In this case you obviously don't.
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Offline dragonsdemesneTopic starter

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Re: Random ideas from the Dragon's Demesne https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31976.msg405030#msg405030
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2011, 12:47:40 am »
Apparently I did misunderstand your post, because I no longer have any idea what you're talking about.  It seems like you think that it's actually a significant accomplishment that you managed to grind the two tournaments per week until you won some.  In the world of adults, that doesn't mean anything.  It means you just kept trying over and over until you were successful, kind of like the arena that you disparage so. 

If thinking that your lucky predictions was skill helps you sleep at night, then by all means continue.  I played in one tournament where using the exact same identical decks for both east and west, I got 3rd place in one and lost in the first round in the other.  Prediction is 100% luck; even if you were able to know the best decks in every single situation (and you clearly don't, as evidenced here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,31596.msg430307#msg430307 )  you have no way of knowing if your opponent is using those decks; they may be using a weaker deck that happens to counter you.

I realize you're excited about your tournament wins and consider it a big accomplishment, and I'm not trying to take away from that.  However, I have played countless CCGs for as long as CCGs have existed, and for longer than you've been alive.  I've seen tens of thousands of cards in dozens of games, and I've seen balanced ones and imbalanced ones and more pvp environments than you can imagine.  So yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

I'd rather you wouldn't post in my thread, since you aren't contributing anything.  Also, I must legally inform you that your picture has been taken for federal identification purposes.


Offline RootRanger

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Re: Random ideas from the Dragon's Demesne https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31976.msg405038#msg405038
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2011, 12:57:16 am »
Apparently I did misunderstand your post, because I no longer have any idea what you're talking about.  It seems like you think that it's actually a significant accomplishment that you managed to grind the two tournaments per week until you won some.  In the world of adults, that doesn't mean anything.  It means you just kept trying over and over until you were successful, kind of like the arena that you disparage so. 
Well if you go through my tournament history you'll realize that I'm significantly more likely to win each tournament than the average player. And I usually don't do two tournaments each week, and I've also had many weeks where I don't enter either of the tournaments.

If thinking that your lucky predictions was skill helps you sleep at night, then by all means continue.  I played in one tournament where using the exact same identical decks for both east and west, I got 3rd place in one and lost in the first round in the other.  Prediction is 100% luck; even if you were able to know the best decks in every single situation (and you clearly don't, as evidenced here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,31596.msg430307#msg430307 )  you have no way of knowing if your opponent is using those decks; they may be using a weaker deck that happens to counter you.
I can guarantee you that prediction in Elements involves a lot of skill. Your one example is hardly relevant; it's just one example.
Most players have tendencies to lean towards certain deck types based on previous game results and the decks both players used. Good players are able to take advantage of this and out-predict the opponent. I've seen it happen time after time.

I realize you're excited about your tournament wins and consider it a big accomplishment, and I'm not trying to take away from that.  However, I have played countless CCGs for as long as CCGs have existed, and for longer than you've been alive.  I've seen tens of thousands of cards in dozens of games, and I've seen balanced ones and imbalanced ones and more pvp environments than you can imagine.  So yes, I do know what I'm talking about.
I've also played a few CCGs, and Elements is completely different from all of the ones I've played.

I'd rather you wouldn't post in my thread, since you aren't contributing anything.  Also, I must legally inform you that your picture has been taken for federal identification purposes.

I think you just don't want someone to point out when you were wrong. And I can't blame you; people want to be right.
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Offline dragonsdemesneTopic starter

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Re: Random ideas from the Dragon's Demesne https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31976.msg405045#msg405045
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2011, 01:04:53 am »
Okay, you're right about everything.  You're the best Elements player that there ever was.  You're right, you're better than me, you're better than everyone.  You aren't a troll; everyone else is trolling you.  You always admit when you're wrong, but you're never wrong, so you don't have to worry about it.  You're also a mindreader and know every deck that everyone is going to pick, and with your precognitive abilities, you are able to know it before they do.  Your lucky guesses aren't luck, but pure, unadulterated skill, made possible only by the awesomeness that is RootRanger.  You don't grind tournaments like everybody else who is entering them is; you are, in fact, the only player in Elements who never grinds anything at all.  Everyone else is just copying forum decks that were all designed by you, and we all just randomly click on cards hoping to defeat your massive intellect, but of course we never can, because you're so good at Elements that no matter what we do, we will always lose.  I don't even know why we try.  I'd kill myself, but then on Judgement Day, I'd still get my ass kicked by you, because you're God, and you'd be waiting for me there. 

Offline dragonsdemesneTopic starter

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Re: Random ideas from the Dragon's Demesne https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31976.msg405046#msg405046
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2011, 01:06:01 am »
Thread locked.  Rootranger has completely derailed it.

 

blarg: