Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => Game Suggestions and Feedback => Topic started by: Jenkar on October 14, 2011, 06:32:59 am
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An exploit that basicly allows anyone who knows anyone with rare to eventually get as many copies of these rares.
Why is it problematic? Because :
-It makes rares very rapidly become non-rares, for the ones using this glitch
-It makes people using it get a (heavy) advantage over those not using it. Which is the definition of an exploit.
Possible fix : no spin in pvp / rares are transformed in relics for pvp.
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And how should this be solved? Is there any way to solve it?
The only solution I can think of is to have way more players in PvP. But that's somewhat hard to control.
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And how should this be solved? Is there any way to solve it?
The only solution I can think of is to have way more players in PvP. But that's somewhat hard to control.
I don't see any, non-constraining way to do it. The only viable solution i can see would be to make rares relics in pvp spins.
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Either rares to relics in PvP spins or remove PvP spins altogether. In fact, I think removing spins and increasing the :electrum gain by a wide margin would increase the playability of the PvP options. Meh, not that much now that there's Arena, but still.
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And how should this be solved? Is there any way to solve it?
The only solution I can think of is to have way more players in PvP. But that's somewhat hard to control.
I did just that :)
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1 big problem, if we transform rares in relics we will have relic farms.
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What exactly is the result of the exploit ? Infinite number of spins ? Same opponent several times ? Or other ?
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What exactly is the result of the exploit ? Infinite number of spins ? Same opponent several times ? Or other ?
Potentially any rare card you want, and as many as you want. The exploit isn't even a bug; just an unwanted thing that can be done to exploit the current PvP system.
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What exactly is the result of the exploit ? Infinite number of spins ? Same opponent several times ? Or other ?
2 people go in at the same time, one using a farm. Chances of getting each other is almost 100% due to the fact there are so few people in pvp2.
Player with farm leaves, player with proper deck wins rares. Rinse and Repeat to go from potentialy nothing to a full set of rares.
Another even bigger problem is alt accounts.
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Not a bug or similar. Moving to GS&F.
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While this isn't an exploit doing this for many people over and over and not incurring a score or win-rate penalty IS an exploit, and something I'd like fixed.
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While this isn't an exploit doing this for many people over and over and not incurring a score or win-rate penalty IS an exploit, and something I'd like fixed.
It does induce a score & win rate penalty.
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While this isn't an exploit doing this for many people over and over and not incurring a score or win-rate penalty IS an exploit, and something I'd like fixed.
It does induce a score & win rate penalty.
There is a way to avoid that, but I didn't think it would be wise to provide ways to exploit on a public forum.
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Hmm...
The problem is there really isn't much incentive to randomly PvP anymore.
I think it would be possible if the game adds a small seeding thing where either you can't play the same opponent twice in a row or you can't play the same thing twice in a certain amount of time.
This should limit it enough for people to not do it.
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Except to get some unupped SoDs before 1.29 came in, I've never used this exploit, and haven't needed to. I do like EvaRia's suggestions; that would slow pvp farming enough that people might decide to actually go out and earn their rares instead :p
I also agree with EvaRia's point that there isn't any incentive to randomly pvp. 99% of the players that I've seen there are newbies, and in pvp2, they usually still have no upgrades or very few. Also, the long delay in both pvp1 and pvp2 waiting for someone else is quite discouraging, even if I knew for sure that a good player was on the other end.
Perhaps if score/electrum rewards for random pvp were increased, people might gain an incentive to play it more. Right now, the rewards (from nonfarms) are absolutely pitiful, comparable to ai2/3, except with slower games due to human response times.
Probably the best solution for pvp is to remove the card spins altogether and just increase the score/electrum rewards for winning.
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If you want to fix this problem, maybe remove spins, and replace them with a much bigger :electrum reward. PVP1 and PVP2 don't give nearly enough money for the effort and time they cost.
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If you want to fix this problem, maybe remove spins, and replace them with a much bigger :electrum reward. PVP1 and PVP2 don't give nearly enough money for the effort and time they cost.
QFT
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No, no, and no... How the hell i'm supposed to win a rare if there are no spins in pvp? It's hard enough now, don't make it more hard.
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No, no, and no... How the hell i'm supposed to win a rare if there are no spins in pvp? It's hard enough now, don't make it more hard.
Play arena, I know you are lazy and want to win free rares but it became so easy.
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personally, I like pvp just as it is. whenever I get frustrated due to a bad farming session, I like to get my AdrenaStaff deck together and bash some heads. Its a really good stress reliever :D
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I've got an idea: let's makes rares only available by traveling to the home of Zanz, knocking on his door and, if he is home, he will roll a 20-sided die, giving us a rare if he hits 20 (5 Electrum if it's a 19).
I haven't exploited this, but I completely understand why others do. This game deserves to be exploited for rares considering how impossible they are to acquire, not to mention how little money is available to newer players.
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And how should this be solved? Is there any way to solve it?
The only solution I can think of is to have way more players in PvP. But that's somewhat hard to control.
I don't see any, non-constraining way to do it. The only viable solution i can see would be to make rares relics in pvp spins.
NO Don't! I never used this exploit but i do agree with replacing rares with relics but don't get rid of the spins.
And we should get more :electrum
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I haven't exploited this, but I completely understand why others do. This game deserves to be exploited for rares considering how impossible they are to acquire, not to mention how little money is available to newer players.
Therfore, in your opinion, rares should be common?
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The Problem with that is then the people that don't exploit this are getting punished with crappy spins.
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I wouldnt mind this change so much if pvp didnt take a minute and a half for each turn. This problem with pvp wont get fixed until zanz gets a better pvp server for the sole reason that if the rare weapon spins are gone then there is no reason to pvp at all anymore.
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I wouldnt mind this change so much if pvp didnt take a minute and a half for each turn. This problem with pvp wont get fixed until zanz gets a better pvp server for the sole reason that if the rare weapon spins are gone then there is no reason to pvp at all anymore.
False, it's fun once you get going. You would still have $ reward (which i think should be increased).
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Still takes forever...
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Ummm...the problem has nothing to do with the PVP server. It has everything to do with the turn-based structure of the game.
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I did never pvp'ed for cards, rares or cash, always did to test funky decks and have some fun.
There is a lot of better ways to acquire cash and rares fairly.
So I don't see any problem with removing the spins
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No spins in pvp is absurd....
You should be ashamed for suggesting such an absurd idea.
Is that any easier than farming using a stolen deck?
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No spins in pvp is absurd....
You should be ashamed for suggesting such an absurd idea.
Is that any easier than farming using a stolen deck?
Way easier. Especially since you can't steal decks, since they were shared.
Basicly, over farming bronze about an hour each day, it's taken me a month to get 12 of a new shard.
Through pvp farming, it's taken a day for one to get them all x12.
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Having to grind for a month is bad design though. Really, this exploit is good for pvp.
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Having to grind for a month is bad design though. Really, this exploit is good for pvp.
Well bumping this as today I had 4 out of 5 random games as farm. - But really, THAT IS THE POINT OF RARE, you're not supposed to base decks on rares, they ought to be a certain novelty you only get once you "completed" the rest.
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Having to grind for a month is bad design though. Really, this exploit is good for pvp.
Well bumping this as today I had 4 out of 5 random games as farm. - But really, THAT IS THE POINT OF RARE, you're not supposed to base decks on rares, they ought to be a certain novelty you only get once you "completed" the rest.
The type of "novelty" rare you describe only exist in nymphs and marks. These cards are indeed novelty cards that should not be based around in decks normally and the reason they are so sucessful is that they con only be obtained via the oracle or PvP leagues.
And here lies the problem of shards and weapons: they can be grinded for. Because they can potentially be obtained in a relatively short period of time if one puts the effort in, many people feel the pressure to obtain shards and rares or they feel they miss out on some important play strategy. On the other hand, since nymphs are truly rare cards and can only be obtained in time, there is no such pressure.
Thus the obvious solution to the farming problem is to explicitly make shards and weapons "true rares" like nymphs, or normal cards buyable from the bazzar or somehow more easily obtained through other means than PvP farms. If people has easier ways to get rares than farms, then problem solved. Trying to make shards and weapons "semi-rare", less rare than nymphs but more rare than normal cards is the root of the problem.
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Having to grind for a month is bad design though. Really, this exploit is good for pvp.
Well bumping this as today I had 4 out of 5 random games as farm. - But really, THAT IS THE POINT OF RARE, you're not supposed to base decks on rares, they ought to be a certain novelty you only get once you "completed" the rest.
The type of "novelty" rare you describe only exist in nymphs and marks. These cards are indeed novelty cards that should not be based around in decks normally and the reason they are so sucessful is that they con only be obtained via the oracle or PvP leagues.
And here lies the problem of shards and weapons: they can be grinded for. Because they can potentially be obtained in a relatively short period of time if one puts the effort in, many people feel the pressure to obtain shards and rares or they feel they miss out on some important play strategy. On the other hand, since nymphs are truly rare cards and can only be obtained in time, there is no such pressure.
Thus the obvious solution to the farming problem is to explicitly make shards and weapons "true rares" like nymphs, or normal cards buyable from the bazzar or somehow more easily obtained through other means than PvP farms. If people has easier ways to get rares than farms, then problem solved. Trying to make shards and weapons "semi-rare", less rare than nymphs but more rare than normal cards is the root of the problem.
Well I think if the rare-spin would ALWAYS grant a rare, maybe make pvp the same as platinum: a special spin after 3 consequitive wins. (While removing rares from standard draws).
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
A) A honor thing. Zanz stated that he wanted rares to be rares, and that's why t50 was removed. Pvp farming is just a faster, more efficient t50. And hence goes against what zanz wished :V
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
A) A honor thing. Zanz stated that he wanted rares to be rares, and that's why t50 was removed. Pvp farming is just a faster, more efficient t50. And hence goes against what zanz wished :V
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the point and i understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't personally PVP and I'm stuck trying to grind AI3 because I made my deck and don't particularly want to steal someone elses deck ideas just to get more electrum faster, I get the point :)
What I'm saying though is the cards are the same, as you said yourself (I think it was you, and cant remember exactly how long you said) you have managed to get the shards in a month doing it your way, however it took you 12 hours to get them through PVP. All I'm saying is, the cards are going to be the same and won't differ based on your perception of how to play the game. You may have had a lucky day? Getting 12 shards has surely restricted you from getting other types of cards that you potentially may need.
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
A) A honor thing. Zanz stated that he wanted rares to be rares, and that's why t50 was removed. Pvp farming is just a faster, more efficient t50. And hence goes against what zanz wished :V
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the point and i understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't personally PVP and I'm stuck trying to grind AI3 because I made my deck and don't particularly want to steal someone elses deck ideas just to get more electrum faster, I get the point :)
What I'm saying though is the cards are the same, as you said yourself (I think it was you, and cant remember exactly how long you said) you have managed to get the shards in a month doing it your way, however it took you 12 hours to get them through PVP. All I'm saying is, the cards are going to be the same and won't differ based on your perception of how to play the game. You may have had a lucky day? Getting 12 shards has surely restricted you from getting other types of cards that you potentially may need.
12 hours was to get 3 types of rares. Lesse. there's 7+ 2*2 + 10 types of rares. Ie 21. so, 7*12 = 84 hours. Assuming you play leisurely & don't know the bugs that can speed that by tons.
Also, just note one thing. If i extend your argument, we should all start with trainer cardbase.
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
A) A honor thing. Zanz stated that he wanted rares to be rares, and that's why t50 was removed. Pvp farming is just a faster, more efficient t50. And hence goes against what zanz wished :V
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the point and i understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't personally PVP and I'm stuck trying to grind AI3 because I made my deck and don't particularly want to steal someone elses deck ideas just to get more electrum faster, I get the point :)
What I'm saying though is the cards are the same, as you said yourself (I think it was you, and cant remember exactly how long you said) you have managed to get the shards in a month doing it your way, however it took you 12 hours to get them through PVP. All I'm saying is, the cards are going to be the same and won't differ based on your perception of how to play the game. You may have had a lucky day? Getting 12 shards has surely restricted you from getting other types of cards that you potentially may need.
12 hours was to get 3 types of rares. Lesse. there's 7+ 2*2 + 10 types of rares. Ie 21. so, 7*12 = 84 hours. Assuming you play leisurely & don't know the bugs that can speed that by tons.
Also, just note one thing. If i extend your argument, we should all start with trainer cardbase.
I have no arguement, mearly making a point, the point is play the game you wish to play the game. There's many flaws if we're talking about honour such as the many ways to increase your chance of getting rares and electrum, there's decks based for newbies like me to farmer FG's or AI4, Rol/Hope or LA as an example. You not going to get shards this way (I don't think) but you can boost your electrum faster and your rare count so that you can start playing PVP's to get the shards or w/e.
On a side note, I'm still bashing AI3s and not trying to make Rol/Hope etc, I have LA but the win rate doesn't do me any favours, I'd rather slug it out for hours n hours and do it the hard way, before you think I'm actually defending the PVP system.
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
A) A honor thing. Zanz stated that he wanted rares to be rares, and that's why t50 was removed. Pvp farming is just a faster, more efficient t50. And hence goes against what zanz wished :V
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the point and i understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't personally PVP and I'm stuck trying to grind AI3 because I made my deck and don't particularly want to steal someone elses deck ideas just to get more electrum faster, I get the point :)
What I'm saying though is the cards are the same, as you said yourself (I think it was you, and cant remember exactly how long you said) you have managed to get the shards in a month doing it your way, however it took you 12 hours to get them through PVP. All I'm saying is, the cards are going to be the same and won't differ based on your perception of how to play the game. You may have had a lucky day? Getting 12 shards has surely restricted you from getting other types of cards that you potentially may need.
Your argument can be said against anything: think a card is OP? - Well what is stopping you from also using that card?
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
A) A honor thing. Zanz stated that he wanted rares to be rares, and that's why t50 was removed. Pvp farming is just a faster, more efficient t50. And hence goes against what zanz wished :V
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the point and i understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't personally PVP and I'm stuck trying to grind AI3 because I made my deck and don't particularly want to steal someone elses deck ideas just to get more electrum faster, I get the point :)
What I'm saying though is the cards are the same, as you said yourself (I think it was you, and cant remember exactly how long you said) you have managed to get the shards in a month doing it your way, however it took you 12 hours to get them through PVP. All I'm saying is, the cards are going to be the same and won't differ based on your perception of how to play the game. You may have had a lucky day? Getting 12 shards has surely restricted you from getting other types of cards that you potentially may need.
Your argument can be said against anything: think a card is OP? - Well what is stopping you from also using that card?
The reason is the same : honor. Basicly, i consider that rare farming gives you an unfair advantage over those who choose to follow the arena. Same as some consider the use of op cards ''unfair''.
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
A) A honor thing. Zanz stated that he wanted rares to be rares, and that's why t50 was removed. Pvp farming is just a faster, more efficient t50. And hence goes against what zanz wished :V
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the point and i understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't personally PVP and I'm stuck trying to grind AI3 because I made my deck and don't particularly want to steal someone elses deck ideas just to get more electrum faster, I get the point :)
What I'm saying though is the cards are the same, as you said yourself (I think it was you, and cant remember exactly how long you said) you have managed to get the shards in a month doing it your way, however it took you 12 hours to get them through PVP. All I'm saying is, the cards are going to be the same and won't differ based on your perception of how to play the game. You may have had a lucky day? Getting 12 shards has surely restricted you from getting other types of cards that you potentially may need.
Your argument can be said against anything: think a card is OP? - Well what is stopping you from also using that card?
I don't have the experience to base an arguement bud lol. Merely making a point that people can get the cards anyway they wish to play the game, also, I said the cards won't change so it shouldn't matter how you go about getting them, so if a card is "OP" then the card will be rectified which would be a different situation all together.
People may be more competitive than others and wish to play real people rather than an AI system, so these people should be punished?
Like I said, I don't have the experience to base an arguement just sharing an opinion. Also, if everyone was to play the PVP system, which is probably more of how the game should be played...rather than al the farming that goes on, it would be more difficult to win a PVP meaning the rewardshould represent the difficulty surely?
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I know I'm new here but, if everyone can do it, how can anyone have a problem?
If people aren't PVP'ing, then there clearly not doing it for a reason? But it's still a personal choice...surely?
It's no fun, takes away from the achievements & makes the game resolve really around shards..
At kongregate I even see people "trading" things from other games - do you wish gains in other games will help you in this game?
But...what stops me doing it? Or you?
The point is people are getting them too fast...well surely thats up to them? If you want them, go get them, if you want the fun, stick at what you're doing but, know you'll have to wait a little longer. The cards don't change, just the form/timescale in which they can be collected differs depending on how you play the game.
A) A honor thing. Zanz stated that he wanted rares to be rares, and that's why t50 was removed. Pvp farming is just a faster, more efficient t50. And hence goes against what zanz wished :V
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the point and i understand where you guys are coming from. I wouldn't personally PVP and I'm stuck trying to grind AI3 because I made my deck and don't particularly want to steal someone elses deck ideas just to get more electrum faster, I get the point :)
What I'm saying though is the cards are the same, as you said yourself (I think it was you, and cant remember exactly how long you said) you have managed to get the shards in a month doing it your way, however it took you 12 hours to get them through PVP. All I'm saying is, the cards are going to be the same and won't differ based on your perception of how to play the game. You may have had a lucky day? Getting 12 shards has surely restricted you from getting other types of cards that you potentially may need.
Your argument can be said against anything: think a card is OP? - Well what is stopping you from also using that card?
The reason is the same : honor. Basicly, i consider that rare farming gives you an unfair advantage over those who choose to follow the arena. Same as some consider the use of op cards ''unfair''.
Yeah. We would go round in circles all day discussing because there's no right/wrong answer because it's based on opinions. The difference between the two though would be appreciation and/or respect. Competitions/Tournaments etc, I would look up to the people who have slugged it out the correct way rather than people who have just gone the easy way to win or w/e. Although, like my previous comment, if all you guys with boss decks were to play PVP all day, it would be harder to win, meaning the reward would justified.
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I don't understand the problem. Are there too many rare farms in PVP 1/2?
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I don't understand the problem. Are there too many rare farms in PVP 1/2?
Rare farms existence is dat problem ^^
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I just spent an hour playing pvp2 on kong and I didnt encounter a single rare farm
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OK, I have to agree with the people saying they have encountered zero rares/ rare farms, because all I play is PVP and arena. In PVP I have never gotten a rare card, or have I seen one in a spin slot. As far as arena goes, thats where the rare farms are, because people make skeleton decks and let their health droop. I don't see why getting rares in PVP is a problem because there is hardly any. If you think I'm misconceiving your issue please correct me.
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OK, I have to agree with the people saying they have encountered zero rares/ rare farms, because all I play is PVP and arena. In PVP I have never gotten a rare card, or have I seen one in a spin slot. As far as arena goes, thats where the rare farms are, because people make skeleton decks and let their health droop. I don't see why getting rares in PVP is a problem because there is hardly any. If you think I'm misconceiving your issue please correct me.
Indeed. The fact is, pvp farming can be done alone, with an alt. Starting games at the same time with both (entering pvp1 at the same time, or pvp2) virtually guarantees finding each other. And you not meeting them.
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OK, I have to agree with the people saying they have encountered zero rares/ rare farms, because all I play is PVP and arena. In PVP I have never gotten a rare card, or have I seen one in a spin slot. As far as arena goes, thats where the rare farms are, because people make skeleton decks and let their health droop. I don't see why getting rares in PVP is a problem because there is hardly any. If you think I'm misconceiving your issue please correct me.
Indeed. The fact is, pvp farming can be done alone, with an alt. Starting games at the same time with both (entering pvp1 at the same time, or pvp2) virtually guarantees finding each other. And you not meeting them.
I don't see the point in farming yourself. In order to give yourself shards, you need 6 shards. If you have 6 shards, then whats the point in farming shards..
But I guess if someone really wanted shards on an alt. then that makes sense.
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OK, I have to agree with the people saying they have encountered zero rares/ rare farms, because all I play is PVP and arena. In PVP I have never gotten a rare card, or have I seen one in a spin slot. As far as arena goes, thats where the rare farms are, because people make skeleton decks and let their health droop. I don't see why getting rares in PVP is a problem because there is hardly any. If you think I'm misconceiving your issue please correct me.
Indeed. The fact is, pvp farming can be done alone, with an alt. Starting games at the same time with both (entering pvp1 at the same time, or pvp2) virtually guarantees finding each other. And you not meeting them.
Actually, no. You only need one.
I don't see the point in farming yourself. In order to give yourself shards, you need 6 shards. If you have 6 shards, then whats the point in farming shards..
But I guess if someone really wanted shards on an alt. then that makes sense.
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OK, I understand now, but dont ruin a good games-type because of a few people farming themselves, and If I wanted to farm I would say this: "Hmmm... I dont want to farm cus' Im lazy, Ill just donate $35 to get the six shards I wanted!"
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Ill just donate $35 to get the six shards I wanted!"
That would get you 7 shards... ;)
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Well, you know what I meant, I dont understand why it is so damn important to nerf an entire game-style to stop a few cheaters, its not even cheating IMO
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If you've already earned the shards with one account, why not allow them to transfer to alt account?
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Why would you need to transfer shards to an alt. account? My alt. is used solely for the purpose of playing as a newb; there's no need to have several main accounts. Thus, transfer is most likely to occur with one main account and several side accounts which get rares and then transfer to the main account. It kind of ruins the game.
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Ah, I finally understand this exploit. I too, think this shouldn't be allowed. But I am confuzzled as to how to stop this.
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Remove the problem. Some ways to do this:
Stop the transfer of rares, like turning rares into relics or giving them the same probability as pillars. I recommend this.
Alternatively, block IP addresses with multiple connections to the game, like multiple tabs or browsers connecting to the server- that would limit testing in fun PvP duels, create lag-based bans, and end the use of more than one elements tab- say, spectator mode or trainer. Not good.
Limit people to 1 account. I'm not really sure how this would be feasibly implemented.
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With the rares becoming as winnable as pillars, no one would have full set except top 50. Maybe all spins should give equal chance for every card, with the spin half-rigged so it wouldn't be almost impossible to win a card.
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Remove the problem. Some ways to do this:
Stop the transfer of rares, like turning rares into relics or giving them the same probability as pillars. I recommend this.
Alternatively, block IP addresses with multiple connections to the game, like multiple tabs or browsers connecting to the server- that would limit testing in fun PvP duels, create lag-based bans, and end the use of more than one elements tab- say, spectator mode or trainer. Not good.
Limit people to 1 account. I'm not really sure how this would be feasibly implemented.
I actually test against myself sometimes when decks are tricky to play for the AI. So i would be against this.
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Remove the problem. Some ways to do this:
Stop the transfer of rares, like turning rares into relics or giving them the same probability as pillars. I recommend this.
Alternatively, block IP addresses with multiple connections to the game, like multiple tabs or browsers connecting to the server- that would limit testing in fun PvP duels, create lag-based bans, and end the use of more than one elements tab- say, spectator mode or trainer. Not good.
Limit people to 1 account. I'm not really sure how this would be feasibly implemented.
I actually test against myself sometimes when decks are tricky to play for the AI. So i would be against this.
I'm against it too. I was just listing ways that this could be stopped.
With the rares becoming as winnable as pillars, no one would have full set except top 50. Maybe all spins should give equal chance for every card, with the spin half-rigged so it wouldn't be almost impossible to win a card.
I don't see why. The arena spins would still be there, as would the PvE spins from the AI. It would just severely limit rares from PvP.
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So decks used to farm AI and arena should be banned aswell following this logic as everyone knows what types of decks are in arena and the spins should be changed so it's ridiculously difficult to get rares from these aswell? Especially as considering you know roughly what deck you're going up against it's alot easy to build a counter deck...these seems more of a problem than a completely random PVP game.
Just throwing my opinion in aswell as I don't see how anyone can have a problem, if everyone played PVP as often as it should be played the reward would be justified. Just because people don't play PVP doesn't make it a cheaters way to get cards...why dont you "rebel" against everyone in PVP and play it yourself so its harder for them to get cards? The reason is because it's alot faster to go into arena or farm the AI.
Although, they shouldn't be playing there own accounts, that's something I disagree with but that's easily managed by blocking mult accounts from the same IP, people have IPs that change, I understand that but something of to that extent is hard to manage.
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So decks used to farm AI and arena should be banned aswell following this logic as everyone knows what types of decks are in arena and the spins should be changed so it's ridiculously difficult to get rares from these aswell? Especially as considering you know roughly what deck you're going up against it's alot easy to build a counter deck...these seems more of a problem than a completely random PVP game.
Just throwing my opinion in aswell as I don't see how anyone can have a problem, if everyone played PVP as often as it should be played the reward would be justified. Just because people don't play PVP doesn't make it a cheaters way to get cards...why dont you "rebel" against everyone in PVP and play it yourself so its harder for them to get cards? The reason is because it's alot faster to go into arena or farm the AI.
Although, they shouldn't be playing there own accounts, that's something I disagree with but that's easily managed by blocking mult accounts from the same IP, people have IPs that change, I understand that but something of to that extent is hard to manage.
Hum, i have no problems with winning rares in normal pvp games. What i am against is winning rares from a 24 pillar + 6 same rare farm.
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I think "remove all spins from PvP" is a total overreaction.
I have no idea how many players do "pvp farming", maybe zanz knows. As far as I´m concerned, I see no farm decks
However I see people asking in chat for farms.
Farms destroy game experience.
To the "too few players do PvP and no incentive to PvP thing":
I normally get my opponent within 20-30 seconds (or even less), that´s totally ok for an online game. Maybe it´s also dependent on the internet connection. Players still play PvP, maybe because they are new and need rares, or because they simply want to play against human players (not AI). Using chatrooms and finding a willing partner isn´t always the best - and fastest solution.
P.S.
This is post number 1337.
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Having to grind for a month is bad design though. Really, this exploit is good for pvp.
Well bumping this as today I had 4 out of 5 random games as farm. - But really, THAT IS THE POINT OF RARE, you're not supposed to base decks on rares, they ought to be a certain novelty you only get once you "completed" the rest.
The type of "novelty" rare you describe only exist in nymphs and marks. These cards are indeed novelty cards that should not be based around in decks normally and the reason they are so sucessful is that they con only be obtained via the oracle or PvP leagues.
And here lies the problem of shards and weapons: they can be grinded for. Because they can potentially be obtained in a relatively short period of time if one puts the effort in, many people feel the pressure to obtain shards and rares or they feel they miss out on some important play strategy. On the other hand, since nymphs are truly rare cards and can only be obtained in time, there is no such pressure.
Thus the obvious solution to the farming problem is to explicitly make shards and weapons "true rares" like nymphs, or normal cards buyable from the bazzar or somehow more easily obtained through other means than PvP farms. If people has easier ways to get rares than farms, then problem solved. Trying to make shards and weapons "semi-rare", less rare than nymphs but more rare than normal cards is the root of the problem.
Well I think if the rare-spin would ALWAYS grant a rare, maybe make pvp the same as platinum: a special spin after 3 consequitive wins. (While removing rares from standard draws).
This. I don't mind needing to win very hard matches X times a row to get a rare, but missing it when you've succeed doing this is just frustrating. Especially as the possibility to win (IIRC) is 1/4, and that's ONE rare. Now, doing this for every rare in the game (12 weapons, miracle, pharaoh, squid, 12 shards, 27 each) 12 times (27*12=324), is evil.
On topic: Replace rares with relics, problem solved. Relic farms isn't that bad.
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idk if it is posible but maybe pvp could be programed that you can only win rares when it's a normal deck and not a farm deck
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And you would determine if it's a farm deck how?
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And you would determine if it's a farm deck how?
i said i didn't know if it was posible, maybe by using the deckcodes, a farm deck should be recognizable as it is 24 pillars and 6 rares
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Very few farm decks are 24 pillars and 6 rares. Besides this, if we stopped rares from being spun with specific decks, people will just change the decks by 1 pillar or whatever to get around it. Not even possible, let alone viable.
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a good way to demotivate rare farm in pvp2 is to change the matchmaking system so that 2 players cant fight eachother 2 times in a row, turning the farm considerably slower and more money/time consuming
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Very few farm decks are 24 pillars and 6 rares. Besides this, if we stopped rares from being spun with specific decks, people will just change the decks by 1 pillar or whatever to get around it. Not even possible, let alone viable.
okay, consider my first poste here as BS then, lol
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a good way to demotivate rare farm in pvp2 is to change the matchmaking system so that 2 players cant fight each other 2 times in a row, turning the farm considerably slower and more money/time consuming
for people who are patient enough, this wouldn't be a hindrance, plus it might hinder the people who actually want to play pvp but there's only 1 other person in pvp 2.
Also, I'm not quite sure how turning rares into relics would help people. I do set up farms occasionally for the "community" good, not only for newbies, but for people who've tried for weeks to get 6 of some rare but the special spins in arena just don't like them. Perhaps you'd advocate them farming for another 6 weeks? (of winter) While it might be a more extreme example, that does at least illustrate the point I'm trying to make.
Setting up farms doesn't take away from the experience as much as "grinding for 5 hours just to get 1 of the card I want" does. Farms don't even guarantee success in getting the designated rare. Plus they do require that I have at least farmed 6 of a rare to create a reliable farm. Certainly my effort counts for something? At least it means that I have more time to play and decided to make life easier for others?
Besides, beggers in chat are annoying and aren't people I'd set up a farm for and isn't something that anyone can really help.
blarg: