New Elements?

[Kael Hate]

Thats all good if Void is 0
But Void isn't 0 its the absence of a value.

Read up on 0. 0 is simply the absence of a value aswell. 0 is nothing. Void is nothing. Therefore Void is 0.

Its where there was something that now isn't. A void is a measure of the difference of what was and now isn't. It is a Negative value, it is not 0.

No, a void is where there is nothing, not necessarily where there was something.

Also, this logic would also suggest that 1 - 1 gives a negative answer, which we all know isn't true.

How about this:
If a Void is 0, and something is lost in the Void, the void still exists but is 0 + the the thing in the void, but is no longer 0 is it?

If we take a physical view of void and say that the thing within the void can exist there peacefully then yes, your logic holds but this is not a proper definition of a void. For an object to exist within the void, the void most exist to contain it, thereby having substance itself. In a true void the object would be within a nonexistent space, meaning it itself would be nonexistent, meaning that there would still be nothing there and that the object could never be retrieved because there was nothing to retrieve it from.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/void
Nowhere there in that definition is the word Nothing.
A void is not nothing, its specifically an absence.

Your probably mistaking Void with Null
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/null
Which is not the absence of a value but a set state of without value or when set specifically a measure of 0



Void which is an Absence means being in a state of not being present
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/absence

Null which is a Nothing is somehting that is non-existant
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nothing

[Bloodshadow]

The dictionary states what a Void is

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/void
–noun
8. an empty space; emptiness: He disappeared into the void.
9. something experienced as a loss or privation: His death left a great void in her life.
10. a gap or opening, as in a wall.
11. a vacancy; vacuum.

And thats a negative.

Kael, you're focusing on one definition of the word "void" and neglecting other definitions.

[Kael Hate]

The dictionary states what a Void is

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/void
–noun
8. an empty space; emptiness: He disappeared into the void.
9. something experienced as a loss or privation: His death left a great void in her life.
10. a gap or opening, as in a wall.
11. a vacancy; vacuum.

And thats a negative.

Kael, you're focusing on one definition of the word "void" and neglecting other definitions.

If you are refering to the Yellow text 8. an empty space; emptiness
Then you would also see that it dictates Empty space rather than just space.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/empty
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/emptiness
1. containing nothing; having none of the usual or appropriate contents: an empty bottle.

So the Void is a space that contained something but now contains nothing. Its Not saying a Void is Nothing, its saying a Void contains nothing where it would have contained something.


Added the link for Emptiness even though it is identical to Empty.

[Bloodshadow]

So the Void is a space that contained something but now contains nothing.

What? So you're basically saying that in order for space to be empty, it has to have contained something first? That's... strange.

Let me see... Find a random desolate corner in the universe, where the temperature is close to absolute zero. More likely than not that portion of space never contained anything to start with.

[Kael Hate]

So the Void is a space that contained something but now contains nothing.

What? So you're basically saying that in order for space to be empty, it has to have contained something first? That's... strange.

Let me see... Find a random desolate corner in the universe, where the temperature is close to absolute zero. More likely than not that portion of space never contained anything to start with.

Sure, go prove that for me.

better yet

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/space
1. the unlimited or incalculably great three-dimensional realm or expanse in which all material objects are located  and all events occur.
I don't see any reference there that says space contains nothing by default.

[Selenbrant]

Why dont you stop this? I think neither "0" nor void is nothing. "0" is a value like all other numbers too and what exactly void is you can philosophise about, but its endless and nobody of you will convince the other one.

[Kael Hate]

Why dont you stop this? I think neither "0" nor void is nothing. "0" is a value like all other numbers too and what exactly void is you can philosophise about, but its endless and nobody of you will convince the other one.

I'm liking the debate. It makes me think of the First time someone explained the concept of 0 and negative numbers.

[dracomageat]

I'm pretty sure some of this argument stems from the common problem of:
"How many apples do you have?"
"I don't have any apples."

The above statement isn't an answer to the question. For the question to actually be answered you must state that you have 0 or no apples. Both statements, however, describe the same state, regardless of whether or not the person in question has just eaten his last apple. Having nothing is therefore equivalent to having 0 of something.

0 is indeed a value but it is the value of nothingness and therefore is neither positive nor negative as it is neither an apple nor a void where an apple should be. And from this my idea of what a void is begins to fall apart  .

[Bloodshadow]

I don't see any reference there that says space contains nothing by default.

Then what does space contain before matter was put into it via the Big Bang? Or, what does space contain by default?

[Kael Hate]

I don't see any reference there that says space contains nothing by default.

Then what does space contain before matter was put into it via the Big Bang? Or, what does space contain by default?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/space
1. the unlimited or incalculably great three-dimensional realm or expanse in which all material objects  are located and all events occur.

If there was a Big Bang then assumedly whatever the fuel for the Big Bang was.

[Selenbrant]

I would continue discussing too, but its too exhausting in english, especially using technical terms I always need to look at leo.org  For example normally you will not use words like "pulling test" if you talk with somebody in english. Or try this: 
Der Zugversuch ist das wichtigste Verfahren der mechanischen Werkstoffprüfung.

[Bloodshadow]

Kael, what does vacuum contain by default?