Neurotoxin

[serprex]

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,50419.0.html

My overall feel from the listed topic is that Neurotoxin is balanced, but it's behavior can feel unrealistic

I'm creating this topic to foster discussion of the following type:
Is neurotoxin modelled realistically? If it isn't, then what would be a superior mechanic to implement neurotoxin? What would be a better label for the current neurotoxin mechanic?

I'm posting in this board because I'm not seeking to buff or nerf Dune Scorpion, but as Plastica observes on the third page, Game Suggestions and Feedback is the best board for this discussion

For the sake of this topic, assume that Dune Scorpion is balanced

The current neurotoxin has allusions to a Boa Constrictor. Would it be balanced to have a card (EDIT: not Dune Scorpion) increase its attack by 1 with each card the opponent plays?
This last point implies that this topic belongs somewhat in CI&A. What roots it here is that the focus is on the pre existing Dune Scorpion

[Keolino]

In reallity you can say that each poison kills you faster as soon as you "do something" (as soon as your pulse rate is increased) Therefor, it would be logical for every poison to do the same thing that neurotoxin currently does.

--> You just can´t do that (That´s obviously nonsense, because it would make several cards overpowerd with a single strike (needing a great deal of balancing), and makes the game boring because every poison would use the complete same mechanic)

--> The second possible way is to change the cards ability, so that it fits neurotoxin better. (The only way to do that? limiting the cards a player can play per turn to one??? Or limiting it to zero??? That ability would be hated by every elements player, even more than the current neurotoxin)

--> The third way is to change the name of dune scorpion, and/or the name of the ability, and/or the picture and the element to make it fit the ability better.




--> Would it be balanced to have a card that increasing it's attack by 1 with each card the opponent plays?
Neurotoxin as it is now makes more sence... And we don´t want to balance it, but to change whatever to make it more logical, right?

[serprex]

The only way to do that? limiting the cards a player can play per turn to one??? Or limiting it to zero??? That ability would be hated by every elements player, even more than the current neurotoxin

Limiting cards played per turn to two would even work, without making it impossible for a player to play their entire hand eventually (Though then you make a Brave Neurotoxin deck...)

Would it be balanced to have a card that increasing it's attack by 1 with each card the opponent plays?

wrt to this quote in quote, I was talking about an alternative card "Boa Constrictor" which could replace the current use of Dune Scorpion if Dune Scorpion's Neurotoxin was modified. The idea being that though there may be disagreement on Neurotoxin's realism, it would still be useful to find another home for the current Neurotoxin mechanic (based on the assumption that the current Neurotoxin is balanced, and that the mechanic itself would not want to be removed from the game)

[Keolino]

Limiting cards played per turn to two would even work, without making it impossible for a player to play their entire hand eventually (Though then you make a Brave Neurotoxin deck...)

Two cards would be underpowerd, and only useable in combination with shard of bravery. Anything else would completely useless, because it wouldn´t slow the enemy down that much. A stalker deck would than be better in every way.

Another problem is, that you can´t put a Boa with neurotoxin-mechanic into life (Adrenalin) or Night and Death (Nightfall) because then it would be really overpowered.

[serprex]

It has strengths against Fractal, can be good against rushes, reduces the effectiveness of draw power cards, can make it annoying to get pillars out quickly if applied early
But yes, overall, too weak. Especially if attack remains 0 at start, which 's scorpion should be a sole exception of

What's wrong with a Boa with Adrenaline or Nightfall? It doesn't grow in power with successive attacks, only in card playing. Adrenaline probably would be too fast. Issue too is having multiple Boas out would grant +x damage per turn per card, which the current Neurotoxin is incapable of. Definitely greatly succeeds Vulture

Other idea: disable the opponent's weapon. This has synergy with Sundial

[Keolino]

I thought the boa would use the exact same mechanic which dune scorpion currently uses. Since the mechanic isn´t overpowerd in any way, just a little annoying (and, as you said, the ability doesn´t fit the name "neurotoxin" that well).
But for a Boa constructor, that effect would make perfect sence. But you want to make it gain more attack with each card played, which doesn´t make any sence.

COME ON!!! If you want this game to make more sence, you should try that!!! And if you want to make this effect more balanced in any way, you should TRY SO! But don´t use one reason as a COVER to try the other thing!!!

Since you want that badly, that the effect, as it currently exists, is removed from the game, you must think either that the mechanic is overpowerd, or, on the other side, that it is a too annoying effect to stay in the game.

1. If you find this effect annoying, that´s your personal point of view, and may not represent the view of the community.

2. If you think it´s overpowerd, prove it! Bring examples! That´s the normal way to do things!

I asume, that you find this effect to annoying, and therefore want to remove it from the game in some way. But you know this won´t work, since it isn´t overpowerd, and there are enough veteran players who like this card. So you use the "this card dosn´t make sence"-cover, to remove the effect.

Well, I can tell you another thing. Dune Scorpion is weak. The only way you can play him is with a hyper-stall deck. The only way to encounter this Dune guy often, is to play AI3, about 8% (since there are like 12 or 13 AI3 decks) Everywhere else (PVP1, PVP2, Bronze-Platin Arena and AI4) he is nearly unused. I don´t know if there is a god who uses dune scorps.

So please state CLEAR what you want! What your REAL problem is! There are a lot of people here, wanting to help, wanting to discuss, but if you just cover your feelings, and don´t say the truth, I will let you scream alone in this thread. Because it´s annoying.

At the beginning of everything, you wanted the adding effect of the poison to stop as soon as the dune is removed from play. You still try that. You don´t try to make the card more realistic. You just ty to cover up that you don´t like it right now.

[serprex]

Alright, full disclosure: I find the neurotoxin of Dune Scorpion to be an interesting mechanic which gives real decision making to the victim. I created this thread to allow a discussion about the realism of Neurotoxin to not take over a nerf thread, where the primary concern is balance

I never agreed with the idea to nerf Neurotoxin by halting when the Dune Scorpion dies, I stated "Dune Scorpion is weaker than Deathstalker if you don't play cards. This not even taking into account Nightfall" the first time I posted in the nerf thread

So maybe I'm the wrong person to be posting here, because I'm only maintaining the arguments of others. Unfortunately this may've caused a confusing scenario for you

I enjoy the Neurotoxin mechanic so much that I also wanted to find a way to preserve the mechanism if Neurotoxin changed, unfortunately I proposed one similar to a previous idea. Note that the Boa idea is different than halting Neurotoxin when a Dune Scorpion dies due to stackability. I was only unsure if the Boa idea was actually much more powerful than the current Dune Scorpion, though if Dune Scorpion is actually underpowered, then perhaps it's still balanced even if superior to Dune Scorpion