Multi-casting cards and Elements

[Xelax]

I think that create another mark is stupid (there are 12 kind of spells, do you think that 12 is low?),

I don't think you actually read/understood the idea of the Other mark.

A 13th mark of Other? Really? That completely takes away the entire flavor of Elements. How would you justify that? Here is the breakdown of why this idea doesn't fit with Zanz's game...

We, the players, are Elementals. As such, we are marked as being affiliated with a specific element. If we wish to change marks, we must go through a process of Metamorphosis (a natural process) to become a different type of elemental. Other cards are unnatural, manufactured items or structures used to tap into raw, unrefined elemental energy. A mark of "other" as you propose would mean that we, as natural Elementals, would go through metamorphosis to come out unaffiliated with an element, and instead would be affiliated with unnatural, manufactured things. That doesn't make sense, does it?

I don't mean to sound rude but the idea just doesn't fit with Elements.

I don't know anyone who's taken it as literally as that before. I've just viewed it as a card game.
But anyway doesn't that mean Rainbows are just as against the idea of Elements as well? Anything above a duo deck is really. And pendulums as well. In fact, I thought we were *playing* elements. If anything, now that I think about it, players are more abnormalities in the world of the elementals. Or we could be pink fluffy unicorns that entered a world through a portal, where we grow fingers and use cards to fight the monsters from the other dimension.

You can make any backstory you want

[Amilir]

But there IS an official backstory.  This does not go well with the theme of elements.

[Fragmentation]

Hrm."Takes away from the entire flavor".... I haven't yet seen a player who thought that adding an "other" mark would destabilize and destroy the game fundamentals. Can I have some more hyperbole, plox?

It seems to me that regulars have a very different understanding of the game Elements. I guess this is understandable, as the forums help create and emphasize the "Elements" part of the game, with Elemental wars and Masters of Elements and such. Apparently there's a backstory; I've never noticed the existence of such, although I play often.

As it is, the game taken by itself is devoid of almost any such connotation, except for the name of the game. As it stands now, there is little real "theme" that would be broken by having an "other" element. Maybe if you added stronger story/content to go along with the theme - pretty it up, as it were - then jmiz's point against "Other" would make sense for everybody, not just forum regulars. But for now, there is nothing in-game that makes "other" an unnatural aberration, it seems to me.

Or perhaps my opinion is moot, as I'm not a forum regular and this game is made around forum regulars, not the other peeps who play it.

[Xelax]

But there IS an official backstory.  This does not go well with the theme of elements.

Okay, there is a sentence in the wiki saying You play as an Elemental. That's all there is really. Just take what I said but remove the bit about unicorns.

And the fact that it's a single line on the intro of the wiki doesn't say a lot for the strength or depth of the story

[Kuross]

I apologize if I didn't understand the issue at hand for coding. I was under the impression that the coding problem was specific to the addition of a 13 element and not in general with the creation of multi-casting cost cards. If coding additional casting cost Element cards is too problematic then idea is kaput and end of discussion. Also, I only suggested "the 13 element" as a home for potential multi-casting cost cards. Perhaps a bad choice of a header for this particular discussion?

As for the metamorphosis part, I don't understand how this works since my understanding is that it no longer applies given one can simply change their mark. It can be argued that if one can change their mark at will, the inclusion of multi-casting cards is also possible, from a back-story point of view. We may still be "Elementals" but we are now given the ability to draw upon, manipulate, convert, or otherwise arbitrarily change the element we are controlling.

I guess, for the sake of discussion, one simple post from the scripters would shoot this down or make it possible to continue on this tract. I am just a bit new to this and am not sure whom I'd ask, or direct this question toward, else I would save the community from publically pursuing this line of thought. But, I will say, at least to me, the idea of multi-casting cards is very intriguing to me.

[jmizzle7]

You can make any backstory you want

It's not a backstory, it's the truth.


About the opening line of the wiki... It wasn't made up by somebody just for kicks, it is exactly what Zanzarino had in mind with the creation of this game:



As you can see, the element itself is the force at work, and the Elemental is the player. Metamorphosis is, literally, the changing of one elemental affiliation to another. I didn't make this stuff up, Zanzarino did.

[Xelax]

Um, I think you ignored the post after that where I admitted there was a backstory.

But there IS an official backstory.  This does not go well with the theme of elements.

Okay, there is a sentence in the wiki saying You play as an Elemental. That's all there is really. Just take what I said but remove the bit about unicorns.

And the fact that it's a single line on the intro of the wiki doesn't say a lot for the strength or depth of the story

[Kuross]

Elements is an free online fantasy card game in which each player embodies an elemental – a spirit composed of an element. Elements are the fundamental building blocks of nature and express skills (unique to each element) that can be used in duels against another elemental.

http://elementswiki.co.cc/basics/introduction/


It can easily be argued we aren't "Elementals" but hosts, or Channelers, of the elements we embody. That being the case, is it too much of a stretch to say onecan embody more than one element within their being?

[Amilir]

That quote comes from the MAIN PAGE of elements, it was just copied into the wiki. 
Yes, I think it is too much of a stretch.

EDIT:  Multiple casting costs are currently impossible.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1129.msg12154#msg12154
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1329.msg14888#msg14888

[Kuross]

Having read through that interesting debate between ScaredGirl and cipher_nemo, it seemed very plausible, as described in that thread, to in fact incorporate multi-casting cards in the game. Most of the discussion on the above linked threads (with one leading into the other) was about rainbow's power and that this is not MtG (which I think we all can easily agree on).

I did run into another interesting point in this conversation that I have yet been unable to pursue. What and where is the official Elements storyline? I've read a few player suggested ones, both here and Kong, but I can't seem to track one down on this forum. On the wiki, this is all I've been able to find, short of the opening paragraph on intro to basics and the one-liners for each element:

http://elementsthegame.wikia.com/wiki/Fan_Based_Storyline

I assume since it's a fan-based story it's not official, but even if it was, it doesn't explain how we, the individual players, develop, control, maintain, or otherwise manipulate or become the elements. Why do we use pillars? How can we use other elements that aren't ours, ex- Fractal Pest: Aether/Dark- Am I able to channel Aether being a Darkness elemental or vice versa?

I don't mean to nitpick and I am not trying to be difficult. If my suggestion doesn't fall within the established storyline, point me to it, I'll take the time to read it and forfeit my suggestion should it be clear it doesn't fit. But if there is no defined storyline, please don't use the storyline argument to shoot down suggestions. I've mod'ed/admin'ed on RP servers in the past where I've written/read hundreds of pages of storyline related ideas in an effort to maintain and keep a healthy storyline active and moving forward and I know what it takes to make it all work. But if the storyline is not somewhat fluid to allow the multitude of individual ideas and suggestions to keep it relative, the storyline will become stagnant, potentially killing ideas before they even come to light. However, not to sound harsh, the storyline on a game like this is mainly for flavor, with the side benefit of generating ideas for cards. I have to believe that the majority of Elements players pay very little attention to any storyline and only log in to play a really cool card game.

If there is a storyline, even though it may not be extremely relevant to the masses, an easier way to find and read it should be made available. I have tried for a couple of hours to find one and have been unsuccessful. If it does exist, it is buried deep within the community of Elements.
     

That all said, barring a storyline, the original question still seems valid. Would incorporating multi-casting cards be something Elements might be willing to do?




On a side note, I have had the pleasure of writing many a story in my day (is old fart) and it might be fun to refine some of the posted storylines into one consistent and accepted story, barring approval from the Elements community. This is assuming there is no established story. If there is, disregard this offer and I look forward to reading it!

[Amilir]

It's totally plausible to do multi casting cost cards.  All you need to do is rewrite half the game's engine from scratch.

I find all the stories and storylines currently in existence garbage, but that's me.  The only offical canon is that everyone playing is an elemental, that fights for some reason.  Probably personal power, given the rewards method.

Obviously Elementals can handle and control other elements.  They ARE only one element.  Their mark.  It represents an innate power in them.  What an elemental does with that power, and what other power it summons, is irrelevant.

[wittyname6]

jmizzle7 said: Anubis, Pest, Pulverizer and the others don't have multiple elemental costs, but rather a casting cost of one element and a skill cost of another element.
Sorry, I don't know how to quote.

In response to that, I did mention that it cost something to play and something else to utilize a skill, I didn't say it had multi-elemental cost to play. I'm just saying that they are similar and in addition to being a pain to implement it would also be just a minor variation.

I also agree with kuross, game play is far more important than a storyline. If anything should be changed or not implemented because of the other it should be the story.