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Offline TribalTrouble

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1059857#msg1059857
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2013, 05:46:21 pm »
Ahh but that is just it! MtG contains hundreds of thousands of cards while we have a few hundred. Hundreds of thousands of cards mean that the whole game has some cards that are ignored when balancing and some that are made strong enough to join the top teir of decks. Due to this the balance is centered around only the strongest of the strong while the weaker cards are left to rust. The balancing issue doesn't seem like such an issue because
1) There is multiple developers, testers, etc. in a large team.
2) You get more cards faster.
3) There are more UP cards than OP cards.
4) Tons and tons of cards are banned and limited from all tournament play
5) 4 makes it so you don't have to balance the game around all the cards ever developed.

EtG contains a few hundred of cards. This means that each card is looked at individually by all the players as soon as they come out and balance suggestions are given. Each card is equally as strong, as opposed to having virtually useless cards like Moonlace. Due to this the balance of each individual card is called into question. Even now there are discussions taking place over whether Life's Horned Frog needs a nerf. The balancing issue is extremely more prominent in EtG because:
1) There is only the lone developer Zanzarino.
2) You get less cards slower.
3) Each card is balanced with help from the players, not just with private testing over small periods of time.
4) Each tournament has its own banned cards, each time they are slightly different.
5) 4 makes it so that the game has to be balanced as a whole. No card left behind.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1059867#msg1059867
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2013, 06:12:26 pm »
Well, this is what we are talking about, read the thread title. How to increase revenue to the point EtG becomes main project for Zanz, or a regular staff can be hired.
I am reminding people that the first question is "Would Zanz wish to?". Only after that does considering "how?" become worthwhile. Part of this reminder includes the reasons to suspect that Zanz would not wish to.

Also I doubt this could grow large enough to be a main project for a programmer (they are worth a lot) and remain free to play.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 06:15:03 pm by OldTrees »
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Offline Marvaddin

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1059964#msg1059964
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2013, 02:24:57 am »
EtG contains a few hundred of cards. This means that each card is looked at individually by all the players as soon as they come out and balance suggestions are given. Each card is equally as strong, as opposed to having virtually useless cards like Moonlace. Due to this the balance of each individual card is called into question. (...) The balancing issue is extremely more prominent in EtG because (...)

I disagree about all cards being equally strong. A card like Holy Light doenst have equal power when compared to Fractal or Lava Destroyer. And we have other weak cards as well. But I agree about the rest: the balance is more prominent, and each card is analysed individually, and OP cards are usually nerfed while UP cards are buffed. But our suggestions shouldnt change that. The idea is still to add cards in little ammounts (3-5, probably), so they can be tested and changed considering the players opinions. And with more frequent updates, changes needed could be done faster. There is no need to add tons of cards like MtG, just to let them left to rust, like you said. EtG shouldnt become a copy of Tyrant, Card Monsters or any generic booster based card games. This is probably the most beautiful thing about EtG, and no one wants to change it.

Well, this is what we are talking about, read the thread title. How to increase revenue to the point EtG becomes main project for Zanz, or a regular staff can be hired.
I am reminding people that the first question is "Would Zanz wish to?". Only after that does considering "how?" become worthwhile. Part of this reminder includes the reasons to suspect that Zanz would not wish to.

Also I doubt this could grow large enough to be a main project for a programmer (they are worth a lot) and remain free to play.
Surely, Zanz needs to approve. Because of this Blaze is trying to contact him, and all this discussion is just a brainstorm about how it could be.

Like Blaze, I believe the game has great potential. It has less diversity, but much greater quality than most multiplayer games I have seen. And I have seen something alike already.

In 2006, I started to play Risk (board game) on a website. It had just 3 maps to play: Classic world map, USA and Asia. But, the maps were beautiful, and the rules were simple: playing was fun. The growing community wanted to participate of a greater number of games (usually people had 1 day to play their turns, so games were long and people were wanting to play more), so the owner of the site created a premium feature which would allow unlimited games (non premium max of games was 5 at same time). People started to design new maps (like people design possible cards here), and the site owner put some of them online. As the number of maps grew, so did the community. The owner used to work as programmer for a company, left his job and started to develop the site, adding more options for the games as they were requested for a majority of the community: different number of players, games for doubles, triples and quads, speed games (reduced turn duration), etc. Community members were hired, as here, to organize the forums, tournaments, and discuss the quality of new maps added. The original guy was just programming, and with the proper community support, the quality never really fell. I dont really play more, and dunno if the guy is still in charge, or if he sold the site, but I know that now it has more than 200 avaliable maps and more than 12 million games served.

Bring more fun, more content, expand the game... this attract people, and with a product that is good enough to be sold (look, UNLIMITED games, although of course people used to have 20-30), EtG can grow. Or so I hope.

Offline TribalTrouble

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1059966#msg1059966
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2013, 02:28:50 am »
The Secret is a perfect recent example of Holy Light being just as strong if not stronger.

Offline Hazardus10

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1059968#msg1059968
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2013, 02:31:00 am »
There is not enough demand or revenue generated for Zanz to devote all his time and effort towards this.  Even if we did make all these changes, the amount of income generated would still be miniscule.  As for hiring staff, even if enough money was generated for being able to higher staff, the staff would be temporary as donation would not have the same consistency nor would the staff dedicate all there time towards this. Most would use this as a part time job.

Currently the game is fantastic the way it is, although yes there could be some improvements, but they are minor.

All these ideas of generating revenue are fantastic, but even though they may seem practical, its only in theory that they are.  Zanz is trying to establish himself outside of ETG, that takes time, time which cannot be spent most of the time updating or even fixing the game.

Who knows maybe in a few months when Zanz is firm on his feet, he can spend more time fixing this game up. :)

Its a game of luck ;)


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Offline vrt

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1059976#msg1059976
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2013, 03:06:55 am »
I have a pretty good idea of the willingness of this community to donate. I if you think it's going to fund development of anything for more than a week, you're sadly mistaken.
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Offline Marvaddin

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1060112#msg1060112
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2013, 04:08:42 pm »
I agree that no one wants to donate. Im one of them. Donate = get nothing in return (well, to me a shard = nothing, and $5 is too much, even for a Nymph). But if there is something good to buy, its different. And maybe there is no demand now, but the demand can be "created". Almost 100% of the players probably started playing in Kongregate, which is now promoting lots of games with premium content. Adds are the key.

Surely I may be wrong, but I think it can generate enough revenue to pay at least 1 programmer (Zanz or another one). Maybe you guys can also be underestimating the real size of the community (Zanz obviously has better data to decide). According to STATS, (dunno when they were reset for the last time), quantum pillar has been drawn 20.420.000.000 times (just 0,1% of the cards drawn are sent to this database), and quantum tower 22.124.000.000, not counting players with score < 100. It seems a lot to me.

Well, anyway, its something for Zanz to decide. Blaze said he has some knowledge. Lets see if he can convince Zanz (Im also not confident about this).

Offline laxnut90

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1060252#msg1060252
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2013, 02:06:29 am »
I agree that no one wants to donate. Im one of them. Donate = get nothing in return (well, to me a shard = nothing, and $5 is too much, even for a Nymph). But if there is something good to buy, its different. And maybe there is no demand now, but the demand can be "created". Almost 100% of the players probably started playing in Kongregate, which is now promoting lots of games with premium content. Adds are the key.

Surely I may be wrong, but I think it can generate enough revenue to pay at least 1 programmer (Zanz or another one). Maybe you guys can also be underestimating the real size of the community (Zanz obviously has better data to decide). According to STATS, (dunno when they were reset for the last time), quantum pillar has been drawn 20.420.000.000 times (just 0,1% of the cards drawn are sent to this database), and quantum tower 22.124.000.000, not counting players with score < 100. It seems a lot to me.

Well, anyway, its something for Zanz to decide. Blaze said he has some knowledge. Lets see if he can convince Zanz (Im also not confident about this).

I noticed that you mention Kongregate.  Are there any other flash game sites that have links to Elements?  Does Addictinggames have a link to it?

I still believe that the best way to increase the revenue stream is by expanding the Elements fanbase instead of just trying to draw money out of the current players.  If we could add links for Elements to major flash game websites like these, we may be able to increase the amount of donors simply by increasing the number of players.
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Offline TribalTrouble

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1060260#msg1060260
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2013, 02:41:48 am »
that means more and better servers... and Zanzarino would have to do all of this.

Offline Naesala

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1060286#msg1060286
« Reply #69 on: April 16, 2013, 03:51:02 am »
I agree that no one wants to donate. Im one of them. Donate = get nothing in return (well, to me a shard = nothing, and $5 is too much, even for a Nymph). But if there is something good to buy, its different. And maybe there is no demand now, but the demand can be "created". Almost 100% of the players probably started playing in Kongregate, which is now promoting lots of games with premium content. Adds are the key.

Surely I may be wrong, but I think it can generate enough revenue to pay at least 1 programmer (Zanz or another one). Maybe you guys can also be underestimating the real size of the community (Zanz obviously has better data to decide). According to STATS, (dunno when they were reset for the last time), quantum pillar has been drawn 20.420.000.000 times (just 0,1% of the cards drawn are sent to this database), and quantum tower 22.124.000.000, not counting players with score < 100. It seems a lot to me.

Well, anyway, its something for Zanz to decide. Blaze said he has some knowledge. Lets see if he can convince Zanz (Im also not confident about this).

I noticed that you mention Kongregate.  Are there any other flash game sites that have links to Elements?  Does Addictinggames have a link to it?

I still believe that the best way to increase the revenue stream is by expanding the Elements fanbase instead of just trying to draw money out of the current players.  If we could add links for Elements to major flash game websites like these, we may be able to increase the amount of donors simply by increasing the number of players.

IIRC, Zanz has signed an exclusivity thing with Kong which nets him more revenue
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Offline blarp

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1060332#msg1060332
« Reply #70 on: April 16, 2013, 06:22:07 am »
Both Zanz and ScaredGirl won the lottery recently and consequently don't give a fk about elements. You can't motivate Zanz through sheer money alone.

Anyone know Zanz's address? Maybe if we send him a lot of cookies with card ideas written in icing on them something good will happen.
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Offline Narukta

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Re: More money for Zanz and more updates for us! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=48416.msg1060369#msg1060369
« Reply #71 on: April 16, 2013, 08:16:50 am »
^Sorry for grammar errors

 

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