Missing ingredient: Balance

[Calindu]

heres the thing about elements, and it was a problem i had at first.  there is very little tactics in the game.  there is plenty of strategy, but yes a lot of the game really is decided before you sit down, and another large part is done by the random deal.  the small deck size and allowance of 6 copies allow you to control the second point quite a bit.  the strategy as opposed to tactics?  well thats just a function of the game is designed, if you dont like it MTG is far more tactics over strategy based.

Erm?Elements haves an lot of tactics.Denial/Control;Rush;Stall;Stall break;Ai abusing...

[russianspy1234]

heres the thing about elements, and it was a problem i had at first.  there is very little tactics in the game.  there is plenty of strategy, but yes a lot of the game really is decided before you sit down, and another large part is done by the random deal.  the small deck size and allowance of 6 copies allow you to control the second point quite a bit.  the strategy as opposed to tactics?  well thats just a function of the game is designed, if you dont like it MTG is far more tactics over strategy based.

Erm?Elements haves an lot of tactics.Denial/Control;Rush;Stall;Stall break;Ai abusing...

im using the terms the way they are used in chess.  all of those things you mentioned are strategies, not tactics.

[RootRanger]

I think what he's trying to say is that there are few chances to make a good move once the game has started, which is true. Most of the skill is deckbuilding and deck prediction.

[russianspy1234]

I think what he's trying to say is that there are few chances to make a good move once the game has started, which is true. Most of the skill is deckbuilding and deck prediction.

pretty much.  in mtg for example, there is a question about whether to attack with your creature or leave them as blockers.  with elements, so much is decided for you, and interaction with your opponent is fairly limited, that the best move in a given situation is pretty much self evident.

[DrunkDestroyer]

I personally think that Post has posted a great Post.
(And that's the last of my sarcastic/attempt at wit/derision on this thread).


I mean, look in every single match report.
2nd turn discord, could never recover.
3rd turn discord, could never recover.
9th turn discord, could never recover.

RNG screwed me over
RNG /facepalm
If the RNG had given me X from Y...
I drew X of Y, ugggh RNG....


Now, you could look at it two ways. People don't like losing without reason, or that there wasn't actually a whole lot they could do from a certain point.
(And it's clearly both)

And I would presonally love a game with more cards, more counters, more game. He plays Dune Scorp, I play Wings. He plays Deja vu, I play shockwave. Tennis, more thought. Why cards with alternate uses (Liquid Shadow, Rage Potion are best).
(In fact, I'd be all for 40 card decks with 5 max copies. Bet ya each individual game -not grinding, but who plays to grind?- would be so much more fun?)
Counters would be less hard, and every game would have a proper game. IMO.


Basically, every attempt to make the game more back and forth and changing outcomes with a counter is a good idea. (Not so concerned about bad draws)

[russianspy1234]

(In fact, I'd be all for 40 card decks with 5 max copies.

this isnt really a good idea until a lot more cards are added.

[DrunkDestroyer]

(In fact, I'd be all for 40 card decks with 5 max copies.

this isnt really a good idea until a lot more cards are added.

by DrunkDestroyer

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5of 5of 5of 5op 5op 5op 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5uo 5uo 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5v2 5v2 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mv 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7t9 7t9 7t9 7td 7td 7td 8pt

by DrunkDestroyer

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5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5lk 5lk 5lk 5og 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 7k2 7k2 7n0 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 8pn

by DrunkDestroyer

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5f9 5f9 5f9 5on 5on 5p0 5p0 5p0 5p0 5p0 5pu 5pu 5pu 61t 61t 61t 61u 621 621 624 624 6rm 6rm 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 80d 80d 80e 80h 80h 8pu

May have screwed up the numbers a bit, I was randomly clicking

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4vl 4vl 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 713 713 74a 74f 77g 77g 7ag 7ai 7dq 7ds 7ds 7gm 7ju 7tb 8pj

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What were you saying again?

[adrix89]

Actually there is a good reason why rainbows are so popular since it gives this interactive play style.
My point is not that there is no interaction, my point is that it would be a good idea to leave the rock paper scissors mentality and balance for a more interactive play

[russianspy1234]

(In fact, I'd be all for 40 card decks with 5 max copies.

this isnt really a good idea until a lot more cards are added.

by russianspy1234

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5of 5of 5of 5op 5op 5op 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5uo 5uo 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5v2 5v2 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mv 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7t9 7t9 7t9 7td 7td 7td 8pt

by russianspy1234

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5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5lk 5lk 5lk 5og 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5oj 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 7k2 7k2 7n0 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 8pn

by russianspy1234

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5f9 5f9 5f9 5on 5on 5p0 5p0 5p0 5p0 5p0 5pu 5pu 5pu 61t 61t 61t 61u 621 621 624 624 6rm 6rm 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 7oe 80d 80d 80e 80h 80h 8pu

May have screwed up the numbers a bit, I was randomly clicking

by russianspy1234

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4vl 4vl 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 713 713 74a 74f 77g 77g 7ag 7ai 7dq 7ds 7ds 7gm 7ju 7tb 8pj

by russianspy1234

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58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 590 590 590 590 590 590 591 591 591 591 591 591 5rk 5rk 5rk 8ps

by russianspy1234

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5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f2 5f2 5f6 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5og 5ur 8pm

What were you saying again?

well half of those decks are 30 cards instead of 40

[agentflare]

Actually there is a good reason why rainbows are so popular since it gives this interactive play style.
My point is not that there is no interaction, my point is that it would be a good idea to leave the rock paper scissors mentality and balance for a more interactive play

RPS mentality is the heart of the game though.
FG grinding is trying to counter as many FG decks as possible.
Pvp is about getting inside your opponent's head and making a great deck that also can soft or hard counter.

[OldTrees]

Actually there is a good reason why rainbows are so popular since it gives this interactive play style.
My point is not that there is no interaction, my point is that it would be a good idea to leave the rock paper scissors mentality and balance for a more interactive play

A soft version of Rock Paper Scissors will always form at the Strategy level of the game. (making sure the underdog can win is important)
The tactics level of the game has improved over time but will never reach the majesty of the MtG combat and stack systems due to the 1 active player per turn limitation. However I would like to welcome you to join us in the Card Idea and Art section to help brainstorm solutions that increase interactivity despite this intrinsic obstacle.
Disclaimer: Zanz decides what will or will not be put into the game. We can only offer suggestions. With more help we can offer better/more suggestions.

[russianspy1234]

Actually there is a good reason why rainbows are so popular since it gives this interactive play style.
My point is not that there is no interaction, my point is that it would be a good idea to leave the rock paper scissors mentality and balance for a more interactive play

A soft version of Rock Paper Scissors will always form at the Strategy level of the game. (making sure the underdog can win is important)
The tactics level of the game has improved over time but will never reach the majesty of the MtG combat and stack systems due to the 1 active player per turn limitation. However I would like to welcome you to join us in the Card Idea and Art section to help brainstorm solutions that increase interactivity despite this intrinsic obstacle.
Disclaimer: Zanz decides what will or will not be put into the game. We can only offer suggestions. With more help we can offer better/more suggestions.

the biggest limitation is a lack of blocking.  combat is predetermined by what you put down.  shields dont help because if your opponent puts one down, you can decide to not attack and save your creature from the damage.  because of that, tactics will always be lacking, though it does increase the amount of strategy needed.