Mirror Shield vs Trebuchet

[Uppercut]

Rereading Mirror Shield I think UG should actually deal damage through Mirror Shield because its not a spell, its a permanent. Things that poison (like deadly poison) don't actually deal damage so they shouldn't be reflected.

[jmizzle7]

Rereading Mirror Shield I think UG should actually deal damage through Mirror Shield because its not a spell, its a permanent. Things that poison (like deadly poison) don't actually deal damage so they shouldn't be reflected.

Imagine if Mirror Shield and Jade Shield didn't reflect Unstable Gas. It's a direct damage spell in the form of a permanent, therefore it is reflected (...and obviously because if it wasn't reflected, it would be very powerful).

Catapult doesn't convert a creature into direct damage and then fling it at your opponent. It simply throws the creature at your opponent, dealing damage based on the size of the creature. How would a magically enchanted shield, built to repel direct damage, be able to reflect a creature?

[QuantumT]

Imagine if Mirror Shield and Jade Shield didn't reflect Unstable Gas. It's a direct damage spell in the form of a permanent, therefore it is reflected (...and obviously because if it wasn't reflected, it would be very powerful).

Catapult doesn't convert a creature into direct damage and then fling it at your opponent. It simply throws the creature at your opponent, dealing damage based on the size of the creature. How would a magically enchanted shield, built to repel direct damage, be able to reflect a creature?

This really seems like a decision that's based on whether it's the creature that's doing damage or catapult. I view it as that catapult. That's what has the ability, and without it nothing occurs. The way that creatures do damage is by attacking.

As for flavor, a creature seems like it would be more reflectable than a gas. I have no idea how you're going to use a shield to stop that.

[zse]

To fix this, Trebuchets should have the momentum symbol on the card. That way we know that it goes through shields. then xdude wont have an excuse to buff some more

Well said. That has to be the easiest way to fix this issue.

[Uppercut]

Imagine if Mirror Shield and Jade Shield didn't reflect Unstable Gas. It's a direct damage spell in the form of a permanent, therefore it is reflected (...and obviously because if it wasn't reflected, it would be very powerful).

Catapult doesn't convert a creature into direct damage and then fling it at your opponent. It simply throws the creature at your opponent, dealing damage based on the size of the creature. How would a magically enchanted shield, built to repel direct damage, be able to reflect a creature?

I'd have no issue with Mirror Shield and Jade Shield not reflecting the damage from Unstable Gas. At least then they'd be doing what the cards actually say they do.

I don't care what the flavor is behind Catapault. The fact is that its a damage dealing permanent that breaks the rules of the game without actually saying it breaks the rules of the game. Based on how Mirror Shield works with other cards that exist permanents are spells, except when they're weapons (this actually doesn't make any sense either).Thats just bad design in my opinion.

The best way to fix this that I can see is change mirror shield and jade shield to read "spells and non-weapon permanents" and then give Catapault momentum.

[Kuroaitou]

As for flavor, a creature seems like it would be more reflectable than a gas. I have no idea how you're going to use a shield to stop that.

Correction: it's the explosion of the gas that's reflected (which is why Deflagration/Explosion have absolutely no chance at destroying Jade Shield or Mirror Shield), not the gas itself. Remember that Unstable Gas requires it to be ignited before causing damage, hence, the gas can't be 'reflected', just the energy from the explosion.


...Personally, I don't want Trebuchets to be defeated by a Mirror Shield. Light already has enough things going against Gravity ANYWAY, so why does this matter? I think Trebuchets should deal more damage against any shield that's put up...

[QuantumT]

As for flavor, a creature seems like it would be more reflectable than a gas. I have no idea how you're going to use a shield to stop that.

Correction: it's the explosion of the gas that's reflected (which is why Deflagration/Explosion have absolutely no chance at destroying Jade Shield or Mirror Shield), not the gas itself. Remember that Unstable Gas requires it to be ignited before causing damage, hence, the gas can't be 'reflected', just the energy from the explosion.

I also don't see how a mirror is going to reflect an explosion. It might block it a little, but certainly not reflect it.

...Personally, I don't want Trebuchets to be defeated by a Mirror Shield. Light already has enough things going against Gravity ANYWAY, so why does this matter? I think Trebuchets should deal more damage against any shield that's put up...

I idea itself doesn't really bother me, I just don't like it when things are inconsistent. Something on one of the cards to indicate that they don't function the same way would be fine (just give the catapult a momentum symbol and call it a day).

[jmizzle7]

Imagine if Mirror Shield and Jade Shield didn't reflect Unstable Gas. It's a direct damage spell in the form of a permanent, therefore it is reflected (...and obviously because if it wasn't reflected, it would be very powerful).

Catapult doesn't convert a creature into direct damage and then fling it at your opponent. It simply throws the creature at your opponent, dealing damage based on the size of the creature. How would a magically enchanted shield, built to repel direct damage, be able to reflect a creature?

This really seems like a decision that's based on whether it's the creature that's doing damage or catapult. I view it as that catapult. That's what has the ability, and without it nothing occurs. The way that creatures do damage is by attacking.

As for flavor, a creature seems like it would be more reflectable than a gas. I have no idea how you're going to use a shield to stop that.

I agree that the catapult is the thing that does the damage, but the damage dealt is based entirely on the size of the creature. The effect cannot exclude one or the other. As I said before, a catapult doesn't magically convert a living thing with mass into a little pill of damage to fling at the opponent that could be bounced off. The creature is literally hurled at the opponent. Do you really think if I catapulted an elephant towards you, it could be deflected with a shield?

[QuantumT]

I agree that the catapult is the thing that does the damage, but the damage dealt is based entirely on the size of the creature. The effect cannot exclude one or the other. As I said before, a catapult doesn't magically convert a living thing with mass into a little pill of damage to fling at the opponent that could be bounced off. The creature is literally hurled at the opponent. Do you really think if I catapulted an elephant towards you, it could be deflected with a shield?

Let me know how that mirror works out next time you're in an explosion.

[EvaRia]

I agree that the catapult is the thing that does the damage, but the damage dealt is based entirely on the size of the creature. The effect cannot exclude one or the other. As I said before, a catapult doesn't magically convert a living thing with mass into a little pill of damage to fling at the opponent that could be bounced off. The creature is literally hurled at the opponent. Do you really think if I catapulted an elephant towards you, it could be deflected with a shield?

Let me know how that mirror works out next time you're in an explosion.

It's a Magical mirror. They can do that. A normal mirror wouldn't reflect fireballs, ice shard, lightning, or dark magic either.

[QuantumT]

I agree that the catapult is the thing that does the damage, but the damage dealt is based entirely on the size of the creature. The effect cannot exclude one or the other. As I said before, a catapult doesn't magically convert a living thing with mass into a little pill of damage to fling at the opponent that could be bounced off. The creature is literally hurled at the opponent. Do you really think if I catapulted an elephant towards you, it could be deflected with a shield?

Let me know how that mirror works out next time you're in an explosion.

It's a Magical mirror. They can do that. A normal mirror wouldn't reflect fireballs, ice shard, lightning, or dark magic either.

Why can your magical mirror block something that's spread over an area and not an elephant? It still seems rather arbitrary.

[jmizzle7]

Why can your magical mirror block something that's spread over an area and not an elephant? It still seems rather arbitrary.

Think of Mirror Shield as akin to something of a riot shield or bulletproof shield. It is meant to deflect waveforms and incoming small particles, including exploding gas. These kinds of shields deflect, but don't protect the guy behind them from a big bad Armagio landing on them. The Mirror Shield from The Legend of Zelda: a Link to the Past is a perfect example of this.