Just a point to make

[Ignion]

I know some people may think this post belongs to another section, but I believe this is the right place to post this because this pertains to every discussion I see in this nerf section.

It seems that every time someone points out a card that needs modifications, there are always people who counter-argue by saying, "we need that for FG farming."

To me, that is a ridiculous reason. Since when did this game become about False God? Isn't that more an "extra" feature of this game? I thought the whole point of an online card game like this was so "people could play the game and enjoy it together." And, if there are cards that ruin that experience for users, that supercedes whatever reason you may have about False God. They are meant to be a challenge, remind you, so stop wanting it to be easy to beat them.

Let us all remind ourselves what the life of this game is "it's the players playing together" NOT BEATING RIDICULOUS CPU.

Ignion.

[smuglapse]

Don't worry.  Zanz doesn't care about that particular argument, and that is all that matters.

FG's are the very last reason used to determine balance

[RootRanger]

Thankfully most people balance cards based off of performance in PvP...I hope so, at least.

[TheIdioticIdiot]

however tho, keep in mind that u will be so much poorer without FG farming
also, most nerfs in question are because of FG decks, quite a few T50 decks are FG decks, which makes ppl think some key cards in those decks are OP

however, here are some that are truly OP
entropy nymph: despite being very rare, it's OP as ****, pop one to the field, bam, 90% percent win rate... 95% if with quint...
gravity nymph: despite being very rare, it's also OP as ****, wrecks rainbow decks... and will even kill mono decks sometimes...

I know that I only named nymphs, but if you compare these nymphs to other nymphs, you will clearly see the imbalance...

[jumpoffduck]

entropy nymph: despite being very rare, it's OP as ****, pop one to the field, bam, 90% percent win rate... 95% if with quint...

How many games did you test to get those numbers? They seem quite high, seeing as purple nymphs can be easily CCed, outrushed, or beaten with a creatureless deck.

[TheIdioticIdiot]

i didn't test any, as i don't have any
but so far, the only deck i lose consistently in T50 is mono entropy (with 2 - 3 nymphs)
it's probably an exaggeration, but considering that I have used fully upped decks (yes, plural), some with heavy CC, one is vNG, and so on, and I still have yet to beat it...
sure there are other threats (BE and demon), but it's the antimatter that kills me all the time

[RootRanger]

however tho, keep in mind that u will be so much poorer without FG farming
also, most nerfs in question are because of FG decks, quite a few T50 decks are FG decks, which makes ppl think some key cards in those decks are OP

A quick glance at this (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,4031.0.html) and you will see that the five most wanted nerfs are for discord, earthquake, SoG, graboid, and black hole. Discord and graboid are there because of their performance in war. SoG isn't used by any FGs. Earthquake is very powerful in PvP because it can slow decks down a lot if played early. Black Hole is there because it centralizes the metagame; it alone is the main reason not to play rainbow. Of course, there is no metagame against the AI because they always use the same decks.

Cards should be balanced based on PvP because the card balancer, zanz, cannot control what synergies players use. If a card is overpowered when being used by a FG, the FGs with that card can be weakened without losing that card. Zanz decides how hard each FG should be. If a card is overpowered when being used against a FG, zanz can strengthen the FGs weak against that card. However, if a card is overpowered in PvP play there is no way to weaken the players using that card without weakening the card itself. Balancing cards based on PvP performance is the only way to balance PvP. There are other ways to balance FGs without balancing one specific card the FG uses.

however, here are some that are truly OP
entropy nymph: despite being very rare, it's OP as ****, pop one to the field, bam, 90% percent win rate... 95% if with quint...
gravity nymph: despite being very rare, it's also OP as ****, wrecks rainbow decks... and will even kill mono decks sometimes...

I'm guessing you play rush a lot? Nymphs are no problem for a deck with adequate control.
Basically, nymphs are strong when facing a deck low/lacking in CC and weak when facing a deck heavy in CC.
I don't see how this is different from cards very strong against certain cards and very weak against others. Many of them exist.

[TheIdioticIdiot]

I use rushes, but I don't use them all the time...
depend on my mood, if I am angry, fire rush, if not, then water mild play, if I just want to waste time, water/fire stall

[redium]

I am not trying to argue the point because I do agree.

To compete in free pvp, pvp2, and tournaments you do need upgraded cards and decks.  So being able to grind fg to make enough money for those decks helps.  Not to mention the fact you have to build a fg deck just to grind fgs.  Money is an issue, it places you on a higher tier of players and options.  So no, its not disaster that some cards got nerfed and it makes things a little inconvenient, but it is a bit of a pain, and it is hard not to expect people to complain about it.  Ya know? 

Give it some time and it will pass.

[Glitch]

I know some people may think this post belongs to another section, but I believe this is the right place to post this because this pertains to every discussion I see in this nerf section.

It seems that every time someone points out a card that needs modifications, there are always people who counter-argue by saying, "we need that for FG farming."

To me, that is a ridiculous reason. Since when did this game become about False God? Isn't that more an "extra" feature of this game? I thought the whole point of an online card game like this was so "people could play the game and enjoy it together." And, if there are cards that ruin that experience for users, that supercedes whatever reason you may have about False God. They are meant to be a challenge, remind you, so stop wanting it to be easy to beat them.

Let us all remind ourselves what the life of this game is "it's the players playing together" NOT BEATING RIDICULOUS CPU.

Ignion.

I not only agree, but did so five months ago.

Your name shall be Gl2tch, and you shall be my doppleganger.  Together we shall win the internets.

[zorzz]

Let us all remind ourselves what the life of this game is "it's the players playing together" NOT BEATING RIDICULOUS CPU.

Is this true in the first place? Is there any data to backup such claim?
Like "Today N players played. M players played PvP".

[RootRanger]

Is this true in the first place? Is there any data to backup such claim?
Like "Today N players played. M players played PvP".

First, most players play AI in order to more efficiently play PvP (grinding for upped cards, grinding for rares).
Also, cards should be balanced based on PvP performance.