Give some use to the Relics and unupgraded Shards

[monopoly_man]

why not put all the rare cards in a special catagorey that you can unlock once you beat your final quest.

you could make the cards more expensive because they're not common,people wont care though cuz if they want the cards that bad they will try their hardest to obtain the card they want. but i could see how that would be a problem because if you did that they wouldnt be as rare.

[Malduk]

I do think it's a bit strange that unupped shards have no use at all.  Still, I've got to say that I'm not a big fan of this at all.  We're given one oracle visit a day, that's the whole point of it.

How? It's not like 26 visits will get him a Nymph, or even any card at all. He'll probably get more money if he sells all those Relics.

While that may be true of the relics, it's absolutely not true for the shards.  This would mean potentially 26 False God predictions, 26x free electrum (which isn't always a small quanitity...), 26x chances to win free cards (Nymphs included), etc.  That is a big deal, and way more valuable than the ~156 electrum you'd get from selling unupped shards. 

If this was implemented, relic/shard farms would be everywhere, and people would have an extremely easy way to exploit the oracle.  Imagine the sheer amount of oracle visits people could collect, every single day...

I agree with pepo on this. Zanz implemented Nymphs just so the game has some cool ungrind-able cards. This way, people could grind their way to 12 of each nymph.

That is extremely bad system. Randomly distributing cards across accounts is just that - random. Noob can have 15 Nymphs, while veterans none.
Why anyone thinks that getting something randomly is better than getting something actually PLAYING the game, is beyond me. It makes me wanna puke when I hear people that have X nymphs on account they dont even play.
It is not interesting, it is not competitive, it does not make people play the game more. Its just... random.

[xdude]

I do think it's a bit strange that unupped shards have no use at all.  Still, I've got to say that I'm not a big fan of this at all.  We're given one oracle visit a day, that's the whole point of it.

How? It's not like 26 visits will get him a Nymph, or even any card at all. He'll probably get more money if he sells all those Relics.

While that may be true of the relics, it's absolutely not true for the shards.  This would mean potentially 26 False God predictions, 26x free electrum (which isn't always a small quanitity...), 26x chances to win free cards (Nymphs included), etc.  That is a big deal, and way more valuable than the ~156 electrum you'd get from selling unupped shards. 

If this was implemented, relic/shard farms would be everywhere, and people would have an extremely easy way to exploit the oracle.  Imagine the sheer amount of oracle visits people could collect, every single day...

I agree with pepo on this. Zanz implemented Nymphs just so the game has some cool ungrind-able cards. This way, people could grind their way to 12 of each nymph.

That is extremely bad system. Randomly distributing cards across accounts is just that - random. Noob can have 15 Nymphs, while veterans none.
Why anyone thinks that getting something randomly is better than getting something actually PLAYING the game, is beyond me. It makes me wanna puke when I hear people that have X nymphs on account they dont even play.
It is not interesting, it is not competitive, it does not make people play the game more. Its just... random.

Also, why should you be able to get stuff just by grinding? Does that sound cool? Zanz also wanted a wow-effect, not a "finally... I've been waiting long for this... stupid T50 no Purple Nymph farm"-effect.

You can also get them through tournies, using skill.

[Malduk]

I do think it's a bit strange that unupped shards have no use at all.  Still, I've got to say that I'm not a big fan of this at all.  We're given one oracle visit a day, that's the whole point of it.

How? It's not like 26 visits will get him a Nymph, or even any card at all. He'll probably get more money if he sells all those Relics.

While that may be true of the relics, it's absolutely not true for the shards.  This would mean potentially 26 False God predictions, 26x free electrum (which isn't always a small quanitity...), 26x chances to win free cards (Nymphs included), etc.  That is a big deal, and way more valuable than the ~156 electrum you'd get from selling unupped shards. 

If this was implemented, relic/shard farms would be everywhere, and people would have an extremely easy way to exploit the oracle.  Imagine the sheer amount of oracle visits people could collect, every single day...

I agree with pepo on this. Zanz implemented Nymphs just so the game has some cool ungrind-able cards. This way, people could grind their way to 12 of each nymph.

That is extremely bad system. Randomly distributing cards across accounts is just that - random. Noob can have 15 Nymphs, while veterans none.
Why anyone thinks that getting something randomly is better than getting something actually PLAYING the game, is beyond me. It makes me wanna puke when I hear people that have X nymphs on account they dont even play.
It is not interesting, it is not competitive, it does not make people play the game more. Its just... random.

Also, why should you be able to get stuff just by grinding? Does that sound cool? Zanz also wanted a wow-effect, not a "finally... I've been waiting long for this... stupid T50 no Purple Nymph farm"-effect.

You can also get them through tournies, using skill.

Grinding is not "just". Grinding is actually playing. When people spin their first card from FG, they are happy as hell as they are rewarded for trying and building their deck, while you'd say they "grinded" their way there as its a bad thing.
Tournaments are still off-game events, and while its great that Zanz is giving codes for them, for vast majority of playing population it means nothing.

I'm not saying Nymphs should be grindable through T50, but SOME way of obtaining them through PLAYING would be better system than randomly spinning them. As it is, player could be spinning that fat dude for months without being able to build a deck with nymphs.
I have only 1 Nymph for example and I spin it every day. While I can toss that nymph in some deck, having one of the kind is nearly useless.

[Anothebrother]

maybe you upgrade a relic you get a random nymph? this would mean you still have to get 1500 to get an UNUPGRADED nymph

This would make nymphs too easy to get. Right now i think they are too difficult to get but this would literally flood the market.

Perhaps once per day you can trade in a shard/relic for 1 extra oracle turn so you can get 2 turns a day. AND maybe have it cost you 100 electrum.

I like this idea... and/or you could do 6 unupped shards or 3 relics = 1 spin... (1 upped relic = 1 spin)

[PuppyChow]

Malduk, here's what Zanz says about luke based:

I know most players sound frustrated when cards are rare, they want them and they ask everyone how to get those, ending up writing in the forum about "how impossible" is to have a certain card (does not happen anymore, it did a few months ago). But I do believe all the frustration is worth the moment when you finally get a rare card that almost nobody else have... also called "wow effect".

Right now winning a rare card is mostly a "finally, was waiting for it" then a "wow". I am aware of that and I intend to change it. I knew about this problem and I have been working on a solution for a while (even before this post appeared)

I soon will be adding new cards that have a new (higher) level of rarity and cannot be a reward from T50 decks. The new water alchemy card (Nymph's tears) is probably going to be one of those and it will replace the "arctic octopus" as the water rare card; the octopus is going to be for sale at the bazaar.

I am still thinking for a name for those cards: maybe "legendary".

Winning a legendary card is going to be purely luck-based, they will randomly appear in the slots, even for lvl1, in very rare occasions, something like a "jackpot". It has to be luck-based because I want it to be unexpected, not something you "farm", it has to have a "wow-effect" and only a very few players will have those cards. Legendary cards do not add new game mechanics that would be available to a few elected, they will make common game mechanics available in a different way.

If a card is extremely rare, a predefined deck configuration (find deck on the forum, buy cards, farm rares, done) is not possible and a more varied deck population is possible.

This was a long time ago and instead of randomly appearing in slots they came with the oracle.

[Hyroen]

I say there should just be a competition for the best Relic "Upgrade".

The winner would have the idea that is most likely to become what Relics will upgrade to, and upped relics will just get replaced.

I am a bit biased however. As for unupgraded shards, they are meant to only have use when upgraded or they could at least have a minor effect in relation to the upped, such as:

Green Shard:
Odd green shard that seems to have regenerative properties. Heals 2 HP per turn.

Blue Shard:
Odd blue shard that seems to affect longevity. Increases Max HP by 5.

Yellow Shard:
Odd yellow shard that seems to prepare creatures. Ability cost changes to 2 quanta of your mark.

lol

[Anothebrother]

Malduk, here's what Zanz says about luke based:

I know most players sound frustrated when cards are rare, they want them and they ask everyone how to get those, ending up writing in the forum about "how impossible" is to have a certain card (does not happen anymore, it did a few months ago). But I do believe all the frustration is worth the moment when you finally get a rare card that almost nobody else have... also called "wow effect".

Right now winning a rare card is mostly a "finally, was waiting for it" then a "wow". I am aware of that and I intend to change it. I knew about this problem and I have been working on a solution for a while (even before this post appeared)

I soon will be adding new cards that have a new (higher) level of rarity and cannot be a reward from T50 decks. The new water alchemy card (Nymph's tears) is probably going to be one of those and it will replace the "arctic octopus" as the water rare card; the octopus is going to be for sale at the bazaar.

I am still thinking for a name for those cards: maybe "legendary".

Winning a legendary card is going to be purely luck-based, they will randomly appear in the slots, even for lvl1, in very rare occasions, something like a "jackpot". It has to be luck-based because I want it to be unexpected, not something you "farm", it has to have a "wow-effect" and only a very few players will have those cards. Legendary cards do not add new game mechanics that would be available to a few elected, they will make common game mechanics available in a different way.

If a card is extremely rare, a predefined deck configuration (find deck on the forum, buy cards, farm rares, done) is not possible and a more varied deck population is possible.

This was a long time ago and instead of randomly appearing in slots they came with the oracle.

The difference here is... More Grinding = More Spins = More chance at "legendary" cards...

[PuppyChow]

That part is irrelevant. Malduk was arguing that having it completely luck based is terrible, and Zanz is arguing that having it completely luck based is good.

The fact that Zanz had an imperfect solution for what he wanted to do at the time is a moot point.

[Malduk]

That part is irrelevant. Malduk was arguing that having it completely luck based is terrible, and Zanz is arguing that having it completely luck based is good.

The fact that Zanz had an imperfect solution for what he wanted to do at the time is a moot point.

Puppy yeah, I read what Zanz said already. I just completely disagree with it. I didnt get a "wow effect" when I got my first and only nymph, I got "took me so long to spin this one, how long will it take to spin enough to actually make a decent deck with them". How many people are actually USING their nymphs on regular basis? You'll see them now and then, especially if someone was lucky enough to get two or more of a kind, but more nymphs are just an inventory than they are playing cards.

So, sorry, but I dont get how "all the frustration is worth the moment when you finally get a rare card that almost nobody else have", when people actually do have those, and are not really using them.

If say marks were awarded randomly, I'd be perfectly fine with it. Marks are like status symbols, its awesome to have them, you can live without them, they arent as strong cards as nymphs. But nymphs are competitive cards, worthy cards. I hope you understand my point here.

[Anothebrother]

I agree with malduk... i have an  earth nymph (which is considered strong by some and weak by others) and an  nymph which is considered by most the best nymph possible (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8627.0.html) yet i have used them maybe 3-5 times in PVP matches and that's it... I have not been able to incorporate them into any useful FG deck and am scared to even think about upgrading them because what if i need them in a tournament (which are almost always unupped) or a war-type event?

...I agree they shouldnt be given out on T50, and you shouldnt be able to grind them as easily as Upped cards from FGs...but i do not think they should be random, you should be able to increase your probability of getting them...

I like this idea with relics or shards giving extra spins...
...I also like maybe "sacrificing" relics or shards to the oracle to give a better chance of getting a nymph
...also, what if there was a very very hard AI7 that played some sort of nymphomania deck (or a couple different decks so all nymphs were used) and then if you beat that you had a small chance of winning an unupped nymph

[PuppyChow]

Moar from Zanz!

[04:19:56]zanzarino: People always complain because it is not possible to make everyone happy

Sorry, Malduk. Guess you're just one of the people that isn't happy .

And about relics,

[04:16:11]PuppyChow: anyway... endurance mode? elements casino? some use of relics? Autoplay pillars
and towers? Electrum bank? PvP 3?
[04:18:52]zanzarino: relics - no, never

Which I agree with. If we made relics give you an extra spin, then suddenly every one would want relic farms. Which are the easiest farms to make. In effect, making relics give an extra spin would allow you to T50 farm for nymphs because the relics would give a much higher chance of winning a nymph from the oracle due to volume of spins. Same for shards. (But that's already been addressed).

Giving ANY use to relics would make them a valuable card and wanted as a T50 farm, which is what Zanz is trying to get away from.