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BiJay

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Gameplay mechanic suggestion: apply elemental marks to cards in play https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=487.msg4441#msg4441
« on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:52 pm »

In a way, this kind of system would be more complicated to understand than what is in the game now.  However, it would hypothetically benefit from a concentrated structure and graphic scheme that can help flatten the learning curve, and it would reinforce the themes of elements and elemental marks which can assist players to develop positive play intuition.
You contradict yourself.

The problem with your suggestion is:
- It completely destroys the current balance.
- Mupltiple effects aren't possible anymore.

The second part would destroy the depth of the game which makes your suggestion unattractive for me.

Chival

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Gameplay mechanic suggestion: apply elemental marks to cards in play https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=487.msg4442#msg4442
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:52 pm »

i like the idea, it would be an easy way to add more strategy to the game without adding more cards. but i think it would be better if the mark gives a different benifit not related to the cards specific element.

for example instead of life mark only giving a +x+x to life creatures, make it all creatures you control. Sure this would probaly make mono decks even more useless, but really who expects mono decks to be any good with so few cards.

and bijay exactly what balance are you afraid of ruining LOL. this game is not balanced at all.

Evil Hamster

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Gameplay mechanic suggestion: apply elemental marks to cards in play https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=487.msg4443#msg4443
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:52 pm »

I read that twice and don't get it. How would these "marks" be applied?

helium

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Gameplay mechanic suggestion: apply elemental marks to cards in play https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=487.msg4444#msg4444
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:52 pm »

This is one of the best suggestions I've read here.



jj77

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Gameplay mechanic suggestion: apply elemental marks to cards in play https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=487.msg4445#msg4445
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:52 pm »

Short form: Change the way buffs/debuffs are applied to creatures/permanents/players in play so that they go through a system whereby elemental marks are used to represent those effects.

Long form:

There are many different effects that can be applied to creatures/permanents in play and to players.  Creatures can be given a Blessing of +3/+3, permanents can be made immaterial, and players can be poisoned, as three examples.  There is a lot of different ways the game represents these effects.  There's a shield icon to represent gravity pull, blessing is just a change to the power and health numbers, there's a sphere-M icon for momentum, there's a time element icon for immaterial, and there's a death element icon and number for poison.  The game can sometimes become cluttered.

I suggest that all these effects be removed and replaced with an idea of applying elemental marks to cards in play, where the marks solely determine the effect.  I would reuse the mark of death icon with superimposed number structure from poison/infection as a model.

For example, when Blessing is played on a fresh creature, a mark of light icon with a '3' is displayed on the card.  Any creature with a mark of light adds +1/+1 per number onto its current stats.  Another Blessing would increase the number by 3 again.

Next, I would suggest that if a card with a mark on it is given a different mark-based effect from a different element, the existing mark (and associated effects) is removed and replaced by the new mark.

For example, if a creature with a light mark of 3 is targeted by an Infection effect from a Parasite, the light mark is removed, the creature loses -3/-3, and then the creature gains a death mark of 1.

I would suggest the following marks (for starters, just brainstorming for now):
  • Death: as before, a creature with a death mark takes x damage at the end of turn, where x is the mark number; same for a death mark on a player's hp bar; poison concepts are rewritten as a more broad mark of death concept
  • Light: a creature with a light mark has +x/+x on top of their current base stats, where x is the mark number; a player's hp bar with a light mark has +x current and maximum hp, where x is the mark number; Blessing now adds a light mark of 3 instead of +3/+3; Shard of Divinity adds a light mark of 20 to the player's hp bar when it comes into play, and removes any mark on the player's hp bar when it leaves play
  • Life: a creature with a life mark heals up to x hp at the end of turn, where x is the mark number; same for a life mark on a player's hp bar; Heal would add a life mark of possibly 5 or 10; Holy Light would add a life mark of possibly 3 (or a death mark of 3 to death/darkness creatures); Druidic Staff would apply a life mark of 5 to the player's hp bar when it comes into play and remove any mark on the player's hp bar when it is removed from play
  • Aether: a permanent with an aether mark is immaterial (can't be directly targeted) for x turns, where x is the mark number; a player's hp bar with an aether mark ignores creature attacks for x turns; Dimensional Shield would apply an aether mark of 3 to the player's hp bar, and it would remove any mark on the player's hp bar when it leaves the player's shield area; immaterial effects would apply an aether mark (with an appropriate number) instead of the current application of a time mark
  • Time: a card in play with a time mark is evolved to its upgraded form, when the mark is removed the card (even if as a base was upgraded) the card is devolved down to the basic version; no number for this mark; Graboid ability 'evolve' is left unchanged
  • Darkness: a creature or permanent with a darkness mark is considered the same as 'burrowed', ie, with power halved and unaffectable by any external effects; the 'burrow' ability is effectively renamed as 'shadow' or 'shroud' or 'retreat' or similar to fit the darkness theme, and 'unburrowing' is adjusted to fit as well; existing ability costs (often earth) can remain the same
  • Earth: a creature or permanent with an Earth mark is considered to have 'momentum', in that it ignores most shield defenses, as well as +x/+x, where x is the mark number; in general earth mark numbers are generally small, and light mark numbers would generally be larger; momentum abilities are rewritten to be considered an Earth ability, although current uses (often in gravity creatures) and costs can remain the same.
  • Gravity: a creature with a gravity mark is considered to have 'gravity pull', in that incoming creature attack damage are applied against the creature's health before the player's hp bar; as well, a creature with a gravity mark has +0/+x, where x is the mark number; existing gravity pull graphic of a shield icon in the top right corner of the card is discarded
  • Water: a creature or permanent with a water mark is considered 'frozen' for x turns, ie, unable to attack or use abilities, where x is the mark number; a player's hp bar with a water mark means that player cannot play spells for x turns (but can play permanents and creatures as normal), water mark numbers for the player should almost never be more than 1; Freeze spell and Arctic Squid ability would be rewritten to apply water marks with appropriate numbers; Purify spell would be rewritten to remove a mark applied to any targeted card or hp bar; I would suggest removing the current triangular ice glacier graphic from frozen creatures, although I can see
  • Fire: a creature with a fire mark has +x/-x, where x is the mark number; optionally, when a fire mark is removed from a creature, or a creature with a fire mark dies, that creature's player gets 1 or possibly more fire quantums (to fit the model of immolation).
  • Air: a creature with an air mark has +x/+0, where x is the mark number; air marks remove themselves at the end of turn; Dive abilities are rewritten to apply an air mark with a mark number that is equal to the creature's power (possibly before the air mark is applied, in order to double on existing marks like a light mark'ed Blessing before the light mark is removed by the new air mark).
In a way, this kind of system would be more complicated to understand than what is in the game now.  However, it would hypothetically benefit from a concentrated structure and graphic scheme that can help flatten the learning curve, and it would reinforce the themes of elements and elemental marks which can assist players to develop positive play intuition.

One last hypothetical suggestion that comes to mind.  Shard cards might be useful in this system if they were given a 0-cost ability to sacrifice themselves (as a Virus might) to remove a single mark from a card in play or on a player hp bar.  Even marks on immaterial or otherwise untargetable cards.  This kind of ability seems to somewhat fit the concept of Shard cards being generally of no concentrated use without leaving them to be completely useless.

Anyway, just a suggestion...

foyle

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Gameplay mechanic suggestion: apply elemental marks to cards in play https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=487.msg4714#msg4714
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

I think I understand it, but I could be confused.  However, I don't like the idea at all.  First of all, it does seem more confusing than having the numbers directly adjusted.  Second of all, from a strategic standpoint I don't like it.  It would mean you could never mix different abilities (such as casting momentum on your lava golem for example).  It seems to me that this makes things much more boring and greatly limits the different strategies one can come up with.
In regards to Chival's comment of: "and bijay exactly what balance are you afraid of ruining LOL. this game is not balanced at all."  I agree with bijay on this one.  Although I agree that the game is not perfectly "balanced" or anything, I think you are underestimating the amount of change that this would require making to pretty much every card.  To list some quick examples, plague and retrovirus would become two of the most useful cards by far (it would have the effect of removing every ability from every enemy creature, plus putting a death counter on them).  This in turn makes mind flayer and lobotomizer pretty terrible in comparison.  All characters that 'grow' also then become fairly useless because the opponent can easily just add some other ability to the creature to negate all of the growth you have accumulated.
So basically I think this change would require rebalancing of the whole game, many cards would have to be changed completely, and the end result in my opinion would be a system that is worse than what we have now anyway (I see stacking effects as one of the best aspects of this game, not one that should be removed).


Scaredgirl

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Gameplay mechanic suggestion: apply elemental marks to cards in play https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=487.msg4715#msg4715
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm »

Yeah, I'm having trouble understanding it myself. I have one question: What is wrong with the current system of updating the numbers directly?

 

blarg: